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JUNE 29, 2004                                                                                                             
TO:  All KNGG Members
 
This week:
 
Wednesday night June 30th - Town Hall - 6:30 PM
Planning Board meets with Town Board to discuss Town Zoning Code changes.
 
Wednesday night June 30th -  Town Hall - 8:00 PM
The Planning Board meets with Widewaters to discus and check the amendments to the latest amended FDEIS (Final Draft Environmental Impact Statement).
 
Thursday night - July 1st - Town Hall - 7:30 PM
At The ZBA
Widewaters is expected to ask for a variance for an additional curb cut.
They are entitled to two, one for each road, US9 and NY 9H.  They want and additional one.
Still on the burner for them at the ZBA is their roof variance - they are suppose to get back to the ZBA with new information which they have not done.
 
Dunkin' Donuts - The Public Hearing continues
The Town has hired a traffic engineer to evaluate the Dunkin' Donuts traffic study.
It is complete and will be on the agenda.  A determination may be made.
 
Our attorney, Jeff Baker, will be attending the Thursday ZBA meeting.
 
Both meetings are open to the public.  Please join us.
The public is invited to speak during the Public Hearing only.
 
Please remember to send in your tax deductible contribution.
 
 
June 25, 2004      

TO:  All  KNGG  Members

 

Thank you. 

More checks have been arriving!  If you haven't sent yours in, please do.

Let's keep KNGG healthy!

Regarding roundabout experts: 

"The whimsical definition of an 'expert' is a guy from out of town. Let’s not neglect to hear what the guys in town have to say." -- The Plattsburg Press-Republican November 9, 2003 - regarding a DOT traffic engineer who does not drive, yet had been recommending a roundabout for Plattsburgh.

 

Goodbye, Bad Ideas

This time backing up is a good thing. The City of Plattsburgh's common council has finally come to its senses...the council decided to get rid of the ridiculous Rugar Street roundabout.

--The Plattsburgh Press-Republican, Wednesday, May 12, 2004

To read more about the Plattsburgh roundabout controversy visit the KNGG on the web at www.kngg.org - go to ROUNDABOUT and click on “Plattsburgh.”

You have influence too…
Did you know that local planning boards in some smaller towns have been persuaded by the residents as to how to vote on a given project? At times the vote has turned into a popularity contest.  You can bet that Widewaters knows this.  They have been down this road many times before with Home Depot, Wall-Mart and others.  Soon you'll be seeing those green signs popping up around town again. 

 

We must show the Planning Board members that we are still here and they will need to answer to us as well.  We need to get our "SAFETY YES" signs up again.  KNGG does have a supply on hand. 

Let's get those signs up again and let 'em know we're still here!

Let 'em know we don't want that strip mall blocking our Catskill views

And we don't want that experimental roundabout either!

 

To get a free KNGG lawn sign for you and your friends, relatives and neighbors, call:

Abbey Cash   758-7588 - Daily

John Picket    758-7520 - Daily

Sue Chiafullo 758-2944 - Weekends only

Let's show them we are not asleep and that we still care.  Put out a lawn sign or two today!

 

Special Planning Board meeting set for June 30

The meeting will commence at 6:30 PM at the Town Hall. 

First on the agenda:  A discussion of “Code Book housekeeping”

The Town Board has been invited to participate.

If Widewaters has its act together, they will be back with the revised FDEIS (Final Draft Environmental Impact Statement).  This document will need to be checked/reviewed to see that all changes and amendments the Planning Board has requested have actually been done. Once this is completed, a vote will be taken to determine if the FDEIS will be accepted as the FEIS (Final Environmental Impact Statement).

Lafarge: Expert hired to review tire-burn plan
With support from members in Greene, Albany, Rensselaer and northern
Columbia County, Friends of Hudson has retained engineer Paul Supple of
Solid Environmental Consulting in Glenmont (NY) to review the Lafarge
cement plant in Ravena's proposal to burn 6-8 million tires every year. If
you would like to get involved with this initiative, please email Susan Falzon (
falzon@mhcable.com).

The big box we all love to hate is up to no good making big bucks by cheating their staff. These are people whose salary is so low that they qualify for food stamps. We saw it in the PBS documentary we showed in 2002, "Store Wars," and now someone is doing something about it. Please see the article below.



June 22, 2004         
TO:  All KNGG Members        
 

The Register-Star Editorial

Monday June 21, 2004

The roundabout is the best way to go

It’s beginning to seem famous – or infamous – roundabout is the correct solution to the traffic increase expected if the Widewaters development-project is approved.

Widewaters, Inc. is the Syracuse firm seeking to build a strip shopping center in Kinderhook near (at) the intersection of Routes 9 and 9H.  The center’s anchor retail is to be a Hannaford Bros. Grocery store.

It’s been two years since the project was first brought to the Town Board (Planning Board) and has stirred much controversy.  Some residents don’t want a big box grocery store in bucolic Kinderhook.  Others dislike the clutter of a strip center on land with a view of the Catskills that has been farmed for centuries.  Still others fear the traffic increase the grocery store (restaurant and other shops) will create so near the Ichabod Crane Central School.

The state Department of Transportation looked into this last concern and proposed a traffic roundabout for the intersection.  This solution itself has generated controversy, with much resident skepticism that a roundabout would be a safe solution.

But the Town Planning Board recently hired a traffic engineer to study the intersection.  Peter Faith, of the firm of Edwards and Kelcey, was asked to assess the value of a roundabout not only for traffic projected for the Widewaters project, but for additional traffic expected to be generated by a proposed Dunkin’ Donuts store nearby (at the same intersection).  Faith’s conclusion mirror’s that of the DOT.

Faith pointed out, if the Dunkin’ Donuts project is approved, 35 to 40 vehicles heading north each morning during the peak traffic hour would seek to turn left into the Dunkin’ Donut’s shop.  The engineer concluded rightly (?) we believe, those vehicles would have difficulty seeing on-coming traffic (especially, we might add, at the speed the traffic currently runs).  His conclusion was a roundabout would slow traffic and allow those who want coffee and a donut to circle into the Dunkin Donuts lot without danger from oncoming cars.  

Neither the DOT nor Faith have been asked to pass judgment on either of the proposed retail establishments, of course.  That’s not their function, nor their areas of expertise.  But it seems reasonable to conclude from two sets of independent opinions that if these projects are approved by the planning board, a roundabout is the best method for controlling traffic at the intersection.

We encourage the Kinderhook Planning Board to come to the same conclusion so it may move on to other issues in its long running study of the Widewaters project. 

KNGG Responds:

We respond to the above non-researched editorial with a quote from a letter written just this week to Diane Whelton from Mr. Burns, a man with experience, of the United Kingdom.

 

From: RDLBurns

To: 'Diane Whelton'

Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 3:59 AM

Subject: RE: Ewenny Roundabout

I was recently elected to our major Council and will be looking into the matter (a roundabout) on behalf of our constituents.

It seems to me that our roundabout issues are not comparable to yours to a great extent.  What is common is the belief by traffic engineers that they know better, that their computer modelling is superior to common sense.  I have yet to find a computer modelling system with the 'common sense' variable in the program!

Regards, 

Bob Burns

Councillor Bob Burns

Bridgend County Borough Council

01656 647060

KNGG could not say it better.  Please take a look at the ROUNDABOUT section of our web site at www.kngg.org.  The page titled “Road Show” is our criticism of DOT engineer, Howard McCulloch’s favorable roundabout proposal.

 

Our ROUNDABOUT chapter will enlighten you and frighten you with many scary facts,  the ones Widewaters doesn't want you to know.

Please wrire write a rebuttal letter to the editor.

We must comment on irresponsible editorials.

Please send it to editorial@registerstar.com

It’s really frightening that this Howard McCulloch may be allowed to stick us with a roundabout, having never looked at the US9/NY 9H corridor and what effect a roundabout would have on it. 

 

When asked this question by planning board member Gerald Minot-Scheureman at a recent Planning Board meeting, McCulloch’s answer was, “I don’t know. My job was to design a roundabout.”  McCulloch was not even aware of the intersection of NY 9H and Keegan Road and that is signaled and within view of the proposed roundabout site.

THANK YOU:

I would like to thank you for answering our call for help.  Contributions to KNGG have been coming in daily since our letter went out to you.  If you have not replied with a check, please do.  It’s important that we should be able to continue out fight for safe and rural Kinderhook. 



June 14, 2004      
 

Dear KNGG Member:
 
Widewaters Commons is not “a done deal.” KNGG and you, its members, still have lots of work to do. We still need members to speak, telephone, and write to the Planning Board members encouraging them to turn down the Widewaters’ application. We need to legally investigate two additional variance requests by Widewaters that will soon come before the Town ZBA.
And additionally we are now actively fighting the Dunkin’ Donuts’ application to put a fast foods drive thru at US9 and NY 9H.


KNGG urges the Planning Board to require Widewaters to put all green space (land not built upon) into a conservation easement.  Widewaters has annotated their site plan that no green space may be built upon. But laws can change as well as Planning Board membership.  Notes on site plans can be changed with a vote. KNGG wants an easement so the green space is guaranteed to remain permanently green for future generations.

We are fighting legal and engineering battles. Involved are legal nuances and technicalities of which most of us are not informed. Widewaters are super experts in the field and know how to use these to their advantage. Our success so far is due to professional legal and engineering representation and the fact that we have been able to pay these consultants. If it had not been for our diligent work, the strip mall would be up and running including a likely unsafe experimental roundabout.  


Back when the Kinderhook Town Planning Board accepted the Widewaters DEIS (Draft Environmental Impact Statement) as complete almost two years ago, (August 22, 2002) by a 4 to 3 vote, it was our attorney, Jeff Baker, who insisted that the strip mall developer provide a SDEIS (Supplementary Draft Environmental Impact Statement).

Environmental attorney Jeff Baker, representing KNGG, told the Planning Board, "This document (the DEIS) does not have the basic information that allows you to go forward. The Town is opening itself up to a lawsuit if the Planning Board does not conduct the SEQRA (State Environmental Quality Review Act) review process properly. The Board is asking the public and involved agencies to comment on a document that its own consultants conclude is inadequate."

At the time, the Planning Board was advised that the requirement of a SDEIS was not necessary to continue the process. Largely because of Baker’s statements, the Town fortunately realized it was out of its depth with Widewaters. It then retained its own environmental attorney, Marc Gerstman.

Mr. Baker advised KNGG that it needed to present independent expert engineering studies of water, soil, architecture, lighting, landscaping and especially traffic to refute many of Widewaters’ claims.  The KNGG studies opened many eyes to the fact that Widewaters was providing the Planning Board with biased information.


None of what we have accomplished could have been done without your financial support. Now is NOT the time to give up. Without your financial support we cannot continue and our efforts will need to come to a halt.

Looking to the future, we have made a formal request in May to Supervisor McGivney and the Town Board to implement a moratorium on all commercial development on Routes US9 and NY 9H until a corridor study could be completed. The Board has not acted on this significant request.

To be able to continue our work, we will still need to be able to pay for legal and engineering consultation.

Now we need to call on you to be generous once more. Today we ask those of you who have generously contributed to KNGG in the past, to please dig deep once again. 

And we ask all of you who have not given previously, who have thought, “Let George do it,” to please make a generous contribution at this crucial moment.  You see, there is no George but, if we all pitch in, we can continue to make a stand.

Please give generously so we can continue to advocate the preservation of the town we all love and prevent the planning disasters and mistakes that would destroy Kinderhook. Your contribution to KNGG is tax deductible as allowed by law.

Yours truly,
The Board of Directors

Allen Schaefer, President

Mark Litteken, Treasurer

Deirdre Leland Secretary
Margaret Moran

Alexandra Anderson Spivy

The Advisory Board of Directors

Roderic Blackburn

Jean-Paul Courtens

Jeremiah P. Cosgrove

Jane Ehrlich

Fayal Greene

Sara Johns Griffen

Judy Grunberg

William P. Palmer

Ruth Piwonka

Sam Pratt

Sara Potter Richards

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Please make your check payable to KNGG and send it with this form to KNGG, P O Box 424, Kinderhook NY 12106

KNGG is a not-for-profit corporation.

Your contribution is tax deductible as allowed by law.

Thank you!



June 4, 2004      

TO:  ALL KNGG Members
 
WE ARE BACK IN BUSINESS!    
 
RECENT KNGG ATTACHMENTS NOT DANGEROUS   
We have discovered that the attachments going out with KNGG eNEWS were a form of e-mail "business card" that was automatically attaching itself to outgoing mail.  There were no viruses involved and this has been sorted out so it will not happen in future.  It's still a good idea to be cautious and not open any attachment you are not expecting
                                                                                                  

WIDEWATERS REQUIRED TO GET MORE VARIANCES

Wednesday June 2, 2004

At the special Planning Board meeting Wednesday evening, called especially to deal with Widewaters’ business, the Planning Board determined that Widewaters would need additional variances.  In addition to the one for which they have applied, they will need one for setback of the restaurant and one for an additional curb cut.

Other items discussed were the language of the matrix and preamble of the FDEIS (Final Draft Environmental Impact Statement).

ZBA TO RETAIN MARC GERSTMAN

Thursday June 3, 2004

Although Dunkin’ Donuts was on the ZBA agenda, their representatives were asked by attorney Marc Gold not to appear as the traffic evaluation by the Town was not complete.  The Dunkin Donuts Public Hearing is rescheduled for July 1st.

At the regular ZBA (Zoning Board of Appeals) meeting Thursday evening, board member Richard Wetmore, having brought up the issue earlier with Town Supervisor Doug McGivney, proposed that the ZBA retain environmental attorney, Marc Gerstman for any matters dealing with Widewaters.  Wetmore clarified that Gerstman's appointment has nothing to do with Marc Gold’s capabilities as an attorney.

Chairman Sean Eagan pointed out that Widewaters Commons is the largest project by far to be considered in Kinderhook. The application process is complicated and expert help in the environmental field would be beneficial.  Board member Kelly Nicoletta stated, “Widewaters has a variance application in for roof pitch and I have the feeling that they’ll want more.”  Margaret Litteken, although recused from Widewaters, was allowed to point out that the previous night the Planning Board found that Widewaters would need two additional variances. But one alternate member argued that this would be an additional expense to the Town.

 

KNGG believes what may be an additional expense to the Town today will probably save it a great deal in future legal fees.

  

A motion was made by Richard Wetmore and seconded by Sean Egan to retain Marc Gerstman.  A vote was taken and the result was unanimous to retain Gerstman.

Marc Gerstman had been retained by the Town for the Planning Board because of the legal environmental complications of the Widewaters application.  Gerstman has dealt often with the environmental parts of the law that most attorneys around here have not.  It is generally felt that he has worked well in advising the Planning Board in the complications of environmental law and the SEQRA (State Environmental Quality Review Act) process. The continuity of having Gerstman retained buy the Town for the ZBA is the ideal situation.  The ZBA made a wise choice.

Mobil jealous of SUNOCO in KINDERHOOK?

You may remember that the Sunoco gas station, on Route 9 north of Valatie almost at the Kinderhook Town line, has been cited for installing signage larger than is allowed by the code. The Sunoco franchise is now in litigation with the Town.

At Thursday’s ZBA meeting, a representative of the Mobil franchise directly across from the Sunoco station, requested to place an application for a variance for larger signage than allowed by code.

The representative advised the ZBA that most franchise stations of all oil companies are “peddling” larger logo signage to their franchises.  Therefore, if one station has a larger sized sign, that station has an advantage over the others in capturing “pass by traffic.”

Board member Kelly Nicoletta asked the representative if the ZBA should expect many more requests for larger signage variances down the line because of this new policy.  The representative replied yes.

Sean Egan requested that the representative present a letter from the oil company to the effect that the oil company is requiring their franchises to put up larger signs.

This is getting off the track. The oil companies do not write the Town’s code. Nor do they make the ZBA determinations.  It certainly wouldn’t look good for the Town if we give Mobil a variance for larger signs especially if we are fighting Sunoco in court on a similar issue.  In the near future Gulf and Getty will want larger signage and soon we’ll be hearing from McDonald’s, Stewarts and Dunkin’ Donuts, whose signage size has just been bargained down.

It’s only fair that if we give in to one, we should treat all as equal.  If not careful, we’ll be lit up as bright as East Greenbush.  If the Mobil variance happens to be granted before the SUNOCO case is settled, the Town attorney will have a difficult time explaining it to the judge.

Just because an oil company wants its franchise to put out larger signage is no reason to give a variance. It brings up the issue of how we are to treat our code.  Will the ZBA be allowed to rewrite the code, or will they be expected enforce it? 

Variances should be given only in extreme circumstances.  Wanting larger signs is not a reason for a variance. 

As ZBA member Richard Wetmore was quoted recently by the Register-Star, “The purpose of the ZBA is to right unanticipated, egregious wrongs to individuals that were engendered by the Town in enacting its codes.”

“I get the feeling sometimes we are looking for a way to grant a variance,” he continued.  “We should look for egregious harm in exceptional circumstances.  I don’t always get the impression that the Town’s good is foremost in our minds.” 

One can only conclude that because a Town has a good zoning code, does not ensure the community that it will be enforced, especially if exceptions to the code are the norm and not the enforcement of the code. 



 June 3, 2004                                                             

TO:  All KNGG Members    
 
DUNKIN DONUTS HEARING POSTPONED         
 
We have just been advised by our attorneys, who have been in touch with ZBA Attorney Marc Gold, that the Dunkin' Donuts' Public Hearing at the ZBA scheduled for tonight  has been postponed till next month's ZBA meeting. 
 
This is due to the fact the Town's traffic engineer has not completed an evaluation of the Dunkin' Donuts traffic study.  The Public Hearing was held open because the ZBA wanted the Town to evaluate the traffic study.     
 
This now gives us another month to get more letters in to the ZBA:     

PUBLIC HEARING AT ZBA

The Public Hearing for Dunkin' Donuts was declared "open" and will now resume July 2nd.  Letters from the public are still being accepted:

Write to Sean Egan, Chairman, Town of Kinderhook ZBA, PO Box P, Niverville NY 12130

Be sure to send a copy of your letter to Letters to the Editor:

 
THE CHATHAM COURIER
24 Park Row, Chatham NY 12037
phone 518 392-5151
outside area 800 836-4069
fax 518 392- 7322
 
THE INDEPENDENT
P O Box 360, Hillsdale NY 12529
phone 518 325-4400 Hillsdale
phone 518 392-4400 Chatham
phone 518 828-4300 Hudson
fax 518 325-4497
 
THE REGISTER-STAR
364 Warren Street, Hudson NY 12534
Mail: PO Box 635, Hudson NY 12534
phone 518 828-1616
fax 518 828-3870
 
SUMMARY:
 
Thursday July 2nd - 7:30 PM - Town Hall - Niverville
Dunkin' Donuts has applied for three variances. 
1.   One for double the signage area allowed by code.
2.   One for a much larger setback not allowed by code..
3.   One for a much larger lot coverage not allowed by code.. They wish to cover 65% of the property.  The code allows 50%.
 
LOCATION: the apex Junction of Routes US9 and NY 9H directly opposite the Widewaters proposed project on one side and the school district campus (2000 plus students) on the other side.  The plot is too small for what they want to do and the location will only make the intersection more dangerous.
 
The ZBA should not give variances on this project but must stick to the code. If a variance is given to Dunkin' Donuts, it would set a dangerous precedent for this new code.
  Please send in your letter as soon as possible.


Your contribution to KNGG is Tax deductible as allowed by law.


 
JUNE 2, 2004
TO:  All KNGG Members               
 
IF YOU RECEIVE ANY E-MAIL FROM KNGG WITH AN ATTACHMENT . . .
DO  NO  OPEN  THE  ATTACHMENT!
 
We are still experiencing some computer problems and we may be "down" for a few days. 
Today we noticed an attachment self fixing itself to our out going e-mail.  We found it
to be a "temporary internet" file and we have deleted from our system.
 
At this time we'd like to remind you of:
Dunkin' Donuts' hearing for 3 variances Thursday evening 6/3 7:30 at Townhall, Niverville
PLEASE COME OUT TO SHOW YOU SUPPORT OUR STAND
 
To be able to provide you with up to the minute news, this e-mail bulletin and web site operation cost us approximately $178.00 per month (inclusive of the web driver).
We are a not-for-profit organization and dependent on your generosity for funding.  Won't you help us to continue what we are doing in Kinderhook by sending a contribution?
Your contribution to KNGG is tax deductible as allowed by law.
 
The Planning Board Workshop is Thursday June 10th at 7:00 PM - Town Hall, Niverville
     Agenda not available at this time
 
The Town Board meets Monday June 14that 7:00 PM - Town Hall, Niverville
     Agenda not available at this time
 
The Planning Board meets Thursday June 17th - Town Hall Niverville
     Agenda not available at this time
 
KNGG encourages our members to attend as many municipal meetings as possible.


                                                                                
JUNE 1, 2004                                                                                                              
TO:  All KNGG Members

Wednesday June 2nd - Town Hall - Niverville - 7:00 PM

The Planning Board has completed it's review of the Final Draft Environmental Impact Statement with Widewaters.  The June 2nd meeting will be short, only for going over the matrix and preamble of the FDEIS.  The review may be complete but the Planning Board has not voted to accept the document.  This is planned for when they have seen the new document and have proofed it.



 

It is important at a hearing to show the board

that we have support for our point of view. 

This often swings the vote.

We need you to come out in full force this Thursday.

Please make it a point to be there.

 

DUNKIN' DONUTS PUBLIC HEARING AT ZBA

Thursday June 3rd - 7:30 PM - Town Hall - Niverville

Dunkin' Donuts has applied for three variances. 

1.   One for double the signage area allowed by code.

2.   One for much less setback.

3.   One for lot less coverage. They wish to cover 65% of the property.  The code allows 50%.

LOCATION: the apex Junction of Routes US9 and NY 9H directly opposite the Widewaters proposed project on one side and the school district campus (2000 plus students) on the other side.  The plot is too small for what they want to do and the location will only make the intersection more dangerous.

The ZBA should not give variances on this project but must stick to the code. If a variance is given to Dunkin' Donuts, it would set a dangerous precedent.

 

Please show your support.

     Please come to this hearing and tell the ZBA “NO variances.”

          We look forward to seeing you there.



* Your contribution to KNGG is tax deductible as allowed by law. *



We appreciate your previous support. 

And hope you will continue to support good growth for Kinderhook today and tomorrow.

  



Be sure to mark your calendar:

Monday July 26 - 7:30 PM

Quarterly Membership Meeting

The McNary Center - Sylvester Street - Village of Kinderhook

 



MAY 30, 2004                            
TO:  All KNGG Members
 
Widewaters Provokes Bad Feelings at Planning Board
 Excerpts from the May 30th Register-Star editorial:

“Widewaters should let the process work”

A sure sign that the Widewaters Group is becoming restless over the length of time it’s taking to acquire Kinderhook Planning Board approval for its construction project is the action taken recently by Widewaters legal council Thomas Fucillo.  . . .

Last week the company allowed one of its lawyers to send a somewhat offensive letter to the very board  from which it’s seeking approval.  The letter petulantly, and we think foolishly, asked the board to accept at its meeting last Thursday the company’s draft (final) environmental impact statement as complete, subject to some changes still to be completed.

We certainly can understand Widewaters’ impatience: This project has been kicking around for a couple of years.  The (final) draft environmental impact statement has been in front of the Planning Board since December.  And at this point there’s no reason to think a decision by the Planning Board is imminent.

However, there been a case of “the slows” on both sides during this process.  Widewaters has often come before the board with incomplete documentation; the board, for its part, has often avoided taking actions that it could take on parts of the application.

At this point, however, we think a letter such as this one, that the members of the Planning Board deemed to be insulting to be insulting, is far from the best vehicle for propelling the project along. …

…But there are concerns by many in the community that this project might be the harbinger of change that would turn Kinderhook’s Route 9 corridor into a twin to East Greenbush’s Route 9(/20) corridor.  We share those concerns.

We encourage the Widewaters company to send fewer lawyers and enlist more engineers.  Certainly the Planning Board can’t possibly approve an incomplete plan.  Once the development company has all its ducks in a row then, maybe, it will be time for chiding letters.   

 

Planning Board Member Gerry Minot-Scheuerman responds to Widewaters Letter 

 

The following is a copy of the letter written and read into the minutes of the Town of Kinderhook Planning Board on May 27, 2004 by Gerald Minot-Scheuerman.

 

FACTS AND DETAILS  MISSING FROM

THOMAS FUCILLO’S 5-25-04 LETTER

  1. Paragraph 2 “On the other hand, from our vantage point, the review has gone from the sublime to the ridiculous.” 

My opinion, based on this letter, is the past activities of the applicant (my having attended almost, if not every meeting on Widewaters since my appointment as an Alternate member) has taken us from the ridiculous to insulting.

  1. “At this stage, there is no indication it will be completed any time soon.”

I find it interesting that applicant’s lawyer’s letter was dated 5-25 and the Planning Board just happened to receive its first set of documents, sent by overnight mail, from Barbara Beall with a cover letter that was dated 5-24-04.  For those of you who were not at our first special Saturday meeting to review the Draft FEIS, Barbara Beall, a Widewaters contract employee, volunteered to take the Planning Board’s revisions and incorporate the Board’s revisions to the Draft FEIS.  This offer was accepted because Barbara prepared the original Draft and she should have been able to make the edits the quickest.  The package we just received included the Preamble and Matrix (to provide a roadmap for the changes) 

Please note that none of the materials are the substantive changes we made to the Executive Summary or the first part of the detail sections of the Draft FEIS. 

So for me, the answer to your implied question as to what the first indication that we are in the Home Stretch will be, is when the applicant’s consultants submits the revised documents.  Then, unlike some legislative bodies that will go unmentioned, the Planning Board will need to at least read through the document before voting.  This is to ensure all the edits have been appropriately made and nothing accidentally got added or omitted. 

I believe, to use a sport’s metaphor, not only is the ball in your court but it has been since the first Special meeting we had where edits were produced.  Perhaps you should have directed the May 25, 2004 letter to your client and their hired consultants.

 

Paragraph 3 “ As you know, this application has been pending for well over two years.”

At the beginning of the SEQR process, the Planning Board discussed with the applicant the benefits of engaging in scoping and how it could avoid delays in the future and would actually be to the applicant’s advantage, since if it were done, it would greatly limit the ability to add new issues at a later date.  Not only did Widewaters’ representative state their wish not to do scoping, but also made a point that if the Planning Board were to require it, he would see it as a needless waste of time. Also, repeatedly members of the Planning Board over the first year of this project asked the applicant whether they really, really wanted the project evaluated based on the old Town Code.  Repeatedly we were told YES!!!  The applicant went so far as to approach the Town’s ZBA to affirm that the Old Code should be used. 

 

Then suddenly, some might think after someone actually finally looked at the old code, the new code, the project and the comments coming from the public, the applicant decided NO NO I meant New Code. That flip-flop contributed in a large measure to the two-year processing delay time mentioned in the 5-25 letter.

  

  1. Paragraph 4, 5 and 6 mention several items, which the applicant did agree to and were made by the applicant for no “ business purpose”.

However, the Roundabout change was made because without it, DOT had made it clear the project would not receive its required approvals.  The Planning Board got notified and involved in the roundabout discussions only after NYDOT and the applicant had “worked things out”.  This, notwithstanding the fact that the Planning Board and NYDOT both have approval roles to play in terms of roadways and access, also added significantly to the processing time. 

 

As for the building design features, trees and the decision to remove a building, these were all based on the Town Code, which the Planning Board is required to implement, and were pursued by the Board in terms of this applicant in the same manner as it has for other applicant.  One would think that the applicant’s position now seems to be that the Planning Board should have ignored its obligations and the Town Code and just accept what the applicant submitted.  Sorry but in the USA that is not how it works!

 

5.      Paragraph 6 mentions a “ vocal minority of Board Members” 

With the exception of the vote to accept as complete the DEIS, I believe a check of the records will show that the Board votes near unanimously every time it votes.  In my time on this Board, I can only think of fewer than 5 votes that haven’t been unanimous. 

 

Also, at the applicants request, we agreed early on to try and deal with both SEQR and site plan review somewhat together.  This was to help reduce time.  I remember specifically a period about a year or more ago, where we had been trying to move forward on site plan review and finally had, after several months of being told the revised plans were almost ready, extracted a promise from the Widewaters representative, that we would finally get copies of the revised site plan at our next meeting.  A month later, the day of the big unveiling was here.  However, the applicant brought up another issue and just happened to have a motion that he wanted the Board to approve first.  When we refused, he literally packed up everything, including these long awaited plans, and left. 

I hadn’t seen that since I was 10 years old and a playmate didn’t get the do-over he wanted, and so he took “his ball and his bat” and went home.  How much of the 2 year delay was the result of the Planning Board having to wait months for the new site plans to be produced and then wait even longer for them to actually reappear and be given to us?

 

6.      Paragraph 7, 8 and 9 states in terms of the cross access issue, “Section 81-18” which is headed :Off-street parking and loading regulations”

 

I strongly suggest, as members of this Planning Board have done repeatedly with both this applicant and other applicants, that you get a copy of the code and you read the whole thing.  Specifically the topic of cross access and the Site Plan review process. I suggest you ponder section 81-47 Zoning permits; site plan approval.  Specifically subdivision C -Site Plan Review, (b) (2) Review Standards, (a) and b).

I personally believe that these are the portions of the code, along with our Comprehensive Plan, that should be looked at when it comes to deciding issues of cross access.  This has already been done with another applicant; an applicant whose words and actions towards the planning process I would characterize as being “LETS WORK TOGETHER. As OPPOSED to a good cop-bad cop approach that culminates with OUR WAY OR THE HIGH WAY!”

 

7.      Paragraph 10  “oversight fees”

 

Earlier in this process, the applicant allowed their required escrow account to dip below zero; the Board raised the issue and said that based on our fiduciary responsibilities, we could not permit unfunded planning costs to be incurred. We enacted a motion to automatically remove any project from our agenda if its escrow account is in arrears.  The WideWaters representative then asked that we ensure that they be notified in the future so as to prevent this from happening again. 

 

In the spirit of cooperation and ignoring the fact that Widewaters is a multi-million dollar corporation with many highly paid employees, as compared to the Town, we agreed.  Still WideWaters has again allowed this situation to re-occur. 

8.      Paragraph 11 We respectfully request that the Board complete its review at the May 27 meeting and accept the document as complete (subject to changes identified by the Board), so it can issue its findings and render its final decision thereafter ”

I for one might be willing to do this, but only after the applicant has produced the revised, edited sections which they have supposedly been working on for several months.  Trust but verify is a pretty good motto to follow, given the hot-cold approach this applicant has adopted towards this Board.

 

In addition, when this Board voted to hold this meeting tonight, we members and the public were told that the purpose of this meeting was to “continue our review and editing of the Draft FEIS”.  No mention was made of holding a vote!

So now, hours before the meeting is to be held, and I am sure purely by accident, on the same night as this project just happens to also be on the agenda of the County Planning Board.  The applicant’s lawyer is asking us to vote on the completeness of the FEIS.  I for one have seen enough of these coincidences that just seem to happen whenever this project is involved. 

 

I do not believe this is how government bodies in the USA should conduct themselves.  Maybe this is how things are done in Onondaga County but this Planning Board has not acted this way as long as I have been a member.

KNGG says, "Congratulations Gerry!"


April Quarterly Membership Meeting Minutes

Minutes

KNGG Quarterly Meeting

McNary Center, Kinderhook NY 12106

April 26, 2004

At 7:40 PM Allen Schaefer, KNGG President called the meeting to order and welcomed a group of about 25 people to the quarterly meeting and second anniversary celebration.

Attorney Jeff Baker spoke first because he had to leave early.  In the update of the Widewaters project he stated that the big issue is the roundabout.  Jeff feels that the developer should put up a bond for future study and improvement of the roundabout. The Planning Board wants a conservation easement to protect the property at the rear of the proposed mall.  Widewaters had not yet agreed.  According to Jeff the Planning Board can turn down the application for a variety of reasons including traffic, view shed, site plan and the inappropriateness of the development for the Town.

Allen Schaefer gave the Treasurer’s report for Mark Litteken who was out of town.  Deirdre Leland read the minutes of the December 8, 2003 annual meeting. They were accepted by the membership.

Allen Schaefer thanked several KNGG members for their dedicated help and support in KNGG’s first two years. They include John Pickett, Sue Chiafullo, Abby and Larry Cash, Diane Whelton, Meg Moran, Muriel Gibbons and Mark Litteken.

Alexandra Anderson Spivy introduced the guest speaker, Seth McKee, Director of Policy and Programs, Scenic Hudson Land Trust.  Mr. McKee spoke of Scenic Hudson’s efforts in the Hudson Valley to support agriculture. They have helped to protect 20,000 acres between Albany and New York City. The land base needs to be stabilized.  To do this people are asked to contact legislators and the governor about supporting development rights for farmers.  Support of local farmers through Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) and institutional buying for schools, hospitals etc. and influencing local supermarkets to buy local produce should be encouraged.  Most importantly we need to be proactive to save farmland.  Don’t wait until it is too late.

Several Scenic Hudson pamphlets and maps were shared with the audience.

Ally Spivy requested volunteers for a corporate fund raising effort.

A musical fundraiser with West Point musicians and music by Robert Baksa may be scheduled in August or September.

Discussion was raised about the future direction of KNGG.

Frank Rhyner suggested reviewing the Town’s Economic Development Plan drawn up in 1997 for ideas of positive commercial development.

Marcia Anderson mentioned the need for grants to support the Town Rail/Trail study. Support of the Corridor Study was strongly advocated.

Jerry Cosgrove stated that the community must be willing to invest in its future and that money was what was needed.  He offered to work with a subcommittee on this. 

A grant writer for the Town was suggested.

Diane Whelton feels that we should connect with the NY Preservation League. Dick Morrill emphasized that there should be a greater KNGG presence at all ZBA and Planning Board meetings.

Seth McKee suggested that KNGG support local initiatives for development rights and ways to create open space.

The meeting was adjourned at 9:30.  Guests joined in a reception to celebrate the second anniversary of KNGG.

Deirdre Leland, Secretary May 2004



                                                                            

TWO BOARDS MEET ABOUT WIDEWATERS

The Columbia County Planning Board hosted a special meeting with DOT at 5:00 PM Thursday night in Hudson.  County Planning Board Chairman James Guzzi and his board met “to evaluate the Widewaters proposal’s intercommunity and countryside impact.”  However ten days ago when we attended the county meeting, the only part of the project the board seemed to be interested in was the roundabout.  At that time they felt that they had many roundabout questions and could not make a determination until speaking with the DOT. 

 

Our general feeling that night was that the board members looked upon the DOT with adulation. So, whatever DOT says should be OK.

Representing the DOT was roundabout “expert” Howard McCulloch who gave a shortened presentation of roundabouts and answered the board’s questions.  Howard is still comparing apples to oranges by using Montpelier VT as a comparison to Kinderhook.  Representing Widewaters was consultant Barbara Beale and attorney Tom Fucillo.

Attorney Jim Muscato (pinch hitting for Jeff Baker) and KNGG Treasurer Mark Litteken represented KNGG.  Diane Whelton was present in support of KNGG.

 

McCulloch, Beale and Fucillo gave their presentations, all of which we have heard many times before at Town Planning Board meetings.

Surprisingly, the public was given 3 minutes each to speak to the board.  Mark Litteken addressed several safety factors of the roundabout while Jim Muscato spoke of the roundabout and the importance of the green space.  Widewaters had put a note on the site plan stating that the green space could not be black topped or build on in future.  KNGG attorney, Jeff Baker advises that future boards can change notes on site plan maps.  Jeff Baker strongly recommends the Town to require Widewaters to put the green space into an easement.

Diane Whelton, an asset to our community, spoke of her roundabout studies and how they apply to the proposed Kinderhook roundabout.  Much of the material on the KNGG web site roundabout chapter was researched by Diane.

In the end, after all was said, the County Planning Board voted to give a recommendation on the project.  One wonders how this board can recommend the largest project to be proposed for Columbia County in only two meetings.  How deep did they study the material submitted?  Unfortunately no foresight was demonstrated.

Many were not aware that the day before Diane Whelton was bit by a dangerous poisonous brown spider.  Brave as she is, she went to that meeting anyways and said what she felt needed to be said.  Diane is now hospitalized in Albany.

The same day Diane received her bite, architect Alvin Knoll fell off a ladder and has also been admitted to the hospital in Albany.

And last night, John Picket spent the evening in the emergency room with his ailing wife Grace.  She too has been admitted.

 

We wish Diane, Alvin and Grace a quick recovery.  Anyone wishing to send cards may do so c/o KNGG and we’ll pass them on.


At 7:00 PM Thursday, the Town of Kinderhook Planning Board met for a special meeting which was set to continue their evaluation of the Widewaters FDEIS (Final Draft Environmental Impact Statement) which, once all Planning Board objections are dealt with, will become the Planning Board’s own document.

The day before the meeting, Chairman Ed Simonsen received a demanding letter from Widewaters’ attorney Tom Fucillo to the effect that Widewaters wanted the Planning Board to approve the FDEIS that night.  Ed Simonsen stated how the board has not completed their review of the document and that June 2nd was set as a special meeting to continue the review.  Simonsen also mentioned that this was premature and that the board’s time is being wasted on the letter when they could be more productive spending the time reviewing the document.

 

Planning Board member Gerry Minot-Scheuerman, having received the letter that morning, spent the day writing a rebuttal. He read this brilliant letter that went back to day one of Gerry’s contact with Widewaters, telling of their delays in getting information to the board.  (We hope to be able to obtain a copy for you to see.) Planning Board special attorney, Marc Gerstman, praised the letter. The letter actually rallied board.  No vote was taken and the FDEIS review continued.

BRAVO GERRY! – WE CROWN GERRY MINOT-SCHEUREMAN KNGG HERO OF THE MONTH!



Wednesday June 2nd - Town Hall - Niverville - 7:00 PM

Planning Board continues evaluation of Widewaters FDEIS 

(Final Draft Environmental Impact Statement)



DUNKIN' DONUTS PUBLIC HEARING AT ZBA

Thursday June 3rd - 7:30 PM - Town Hall - Niverville

Dunkin' Donuts has applied for three variances. 

1.   One for double the signage area allowed by code.

2.   One for setback.

3.   One for lot coverage. They wish to cover 65% of the property.  The code allows 50%.

LOCATION: the apex Junction of Routes US9 and NY 9H directly opposite the Widewaters proposed project on one side and the school district campus (2000 plus students) on the other side.  The plot is too small for what they want to do and the location will only make the intersection more dangerous.

The ZBA should not give variances on this project but must stick to the code. If a variance is given to Dunkin' Donuts, it would set a dangerous precedent.

Please show your support.

Please come to this hearing and tell the ZBA “no variances.”



* Your contribution to KNGG is tax deductible as allowed by law. *



 

MAY 27, 2004
U R G E N T
 
TO: ALL KNGG MEMBERS
FROM:  Allen Schaefer
 
Yesterday the Planning Board received a letter from Widewaters attorney, Tom Fucillo, stating that he would like a decision made TONIGHT to approve the FDEIS (Final Draft Environmental Impact Statement).
 
This is premature because the Planning Board has not finished its review/evaluation of the document which they were planning to do tonight and continue on June 2nd. We also feel that Widewaters is trying to take advantage of KNGG as they believe we will be at the County Planning Board meeting with our attorney. 
 
It is very important that we have a good presence in Niverville tonight.  It is important to show the Planning Board that we have not given up and that we still do not want this project to be approved.
 
Please come out to Niverville tonight. 
We need to show a good presence at Town Hall.
WE NEED YOUR HELP TONIGHT. 
Please come to Kinderhook Town Hall tonight at 7:00 PM - It's important! 

Thursday May 27th - 401 State Street - 3rd Floor - Hudson 5:00 PM
County Planning Board meets with DOT on Widewaters Roundabout
A County Planning Board decision may be made tonight
 
Thursday May 27th - Town Hall - Niverville - 7:00 PM
Town Planning Board Meets with Widewaters re FDEIS 

The Register-Star

May 27, 2004

County, town review Widewaters today

KINDERHOOK - Columbia County and the town of Kinderhook planning boards are taking two different approaches in the review of the Widewaters shopping center proposal. Both boards are taking up the project in special meetings today.

County Planning Board Chairman James Guzzi and Planning Department head Roland Vosburgh agree that the county's role is to evaluate the proposal's intercommunity and countywide impact. The town is charged with the responsibility to review the Widewaters' site plan and draft Final Environmental Impact Statement, tending to town comprehensive plan and zoning law matters.

The county meeting is at 5 p.m. at 401 State St. in Hudson. The town meeting is at 7 p.m. at the Kinderhook Town Hall.

To get the rest of the story, see today's Register Star.

Wednesday June 2nd - Town Hall - Niverville - 7:00 PM
Planning Board to continue with Widewaters  FDEIS evaluation


 
Yes, you haven't heard from us in a while.  Our computer crashed last week.  Today is our first day back.  All is back to normal.
 


 
MAY 18, 2004
TO: ALL KNGG MEMBERS
 
AT COUNTY PLANNING BOARD TUESDAY NIGHT

Tonight KNGG president Allen Schaefer and Treasurer Mark Litteken accompanied attorney Jim Muscato (pinch-hitting for Jeff Baker) to the Columbia County Planning Board meeting in Hudson NY. Widewaters was on the agenda seeking approval for their proposed Kinderhook project, which includes a five-leg roundabout.

If the County Planning Board approved the project, the application review at the Kinderhook Town Planning Board would continue as it has. However, if the County Planning Board did not approve the project, in order for it to be approved, the Town Planning Board would be required a vote 100% in its favor.

Surprisingly, there was no representative present from Widewaters at tonight’s meeting.

Normally at County Planning Board Meetings the public is not invited to speak. However our attorney spoke with the chairman asking to address the board. He was agreeable providing the rest of the board agreed. There were no objections.

Jim presented a strong case for KNGG based on our traffic engineers reports and Meg Moran’s findings, which she previously presented to the Town Planning Board. He advised the board of our many concerns with traffic and of important questions that were never addressed by the developer.

Having looked at the site plans and the recent roundabout map, the board members had difficulty coming to a determination because they too began to see many questions about the roundabout that needed to be addressed.

Instead of taking a vote, they decided to invite the DOT to a special public meeting. The date of this meeting will be announced as soon as it is set.

We are happy with this outcome. Had the board been forced to make a decision because of procedure tonight, it would have probably approved the project. Several of the board members have unanswered questions, many of which KNGG presented tonight. The board members are inquisitive and will now have a chance for a closer look.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 

KNGG has been operating on a shoestring. The shoestring is getting shorter. Won’t you help out? Your contribution to KNGG is tax deductible as provided by law.



MAY 18, 2004
TO: ALL KNGG MEMBERS    
 
This Week's Calendar
Tonight
The County Planning Board Meets tonight at 7:00 PM to consider the Widewaters' application.
The meeting place is 421 State Street, Hudson. Should the County turn the project down, in order for the Town Planning Board to approve it, the vote would need to be unamious.
 
A letter of comments prepared by Jeff Baker for KNGG will be presented to the County Planning Board by a representative from Young Sommer.
 
Thursday
The Town Planning Board Meets, 7:00 PM, Niverville
On the Agenda:  Widewaters and Dunkin' Donuts
 
Future
Planning Board continues review of Widewaters FEIS
Thursday May 27 - 7:00 PM and Wednesday June 2 - 7:00 PM
 
A Letter to the Editor was sent to the Independent and the Register-Star this morning:

Inaccuracy Rebutted

An inaccurate headline was run by The Register-Star May 14, "Town Board says no to 9/9H moratorium." In fact no such action took place. As far as Kinderhook Neighbors for Good Growth (KNGG) is concerned, the moratorium it requested at The Town of Kinderhook Board meeting on May 10, 2004 is still under discussion.

The KNGG recommendation for a moratorium was thoroughly researched by Board Member Meg Moran who presented it to the Town Board. Ms Moran, an attorney, served on the Comprehensive Plan Committee and the Town Planning Board.

Moran stated, "Almost two years ago, Supervisor McGivney wrote to DOT and asked for assistance. In his letters, he noted the recent development proposals, including those of a Hannaford grocery store, a donut shop and a Stewart’s, and he requested DOT’s assistance in a coordinated approach to the whole Kinderhook Route 9 corridor. This approach would have been in keeping with the stated goals and mission of the Comprehensive Plan and reflected a concern for the overall impact on traffic and safety that each of these proposals were reasonably anticipated to have and that, as Supervisor McGivney and others realized, needed to be addressed as a whole and not on a piecemeal, case-by-case basis." The DOT did not reply.

"Supervisor McGivney and others have observed that professional guidance regarding traffic considerations would have been helpful at the time of the adoption of the Comprehensive Plan and the related zoning amendments."

A quick look at the numbers illustrates the inevitable short-term failure of the proposed roundabout which DOT is recommending for the Widewaters project which would include a Hannaford supermarket and other stores. But the 30-year lifetime for the roundabout projected by DOT’s Howard McCulloch is based on a 2% growth factor. That number is nowhere near reality. The effect of an error in the growth rate can be significant because we are talking about compounded growth. Based on figures presented to the Planning Board with the Dunkin’ Donuts application, in all probability, US9 will fail in approximately five years and NY 9H will fail in approximately 10 years and not in 30 years as McCulloch claims having used the DOT’s 2% growth factor.

KNGG president Allen Schaefer stated, "Ms. Moran’s comments make a very strong case for the Town’s need to step back and look at how future development complements our Comprehensive Plan. If a corridor study is implemented today without a moratorium, the study will be based on today and will not include new projects yet to be built. The study would be inaccurate. We must put a halt to commercial development until the study is finished. Once the study is finished and the Town determines how to move on it, development could continue under a new plan."

Schaefer concludes, "We have given the Town Board more than sufficient facts needed for this moratorium to work well for Kinderhook. Now is the time, before we begin to look like Greenport, for the Town Board to implement a moratorium."

The KNGG Board of Directors,

Allen Schaefer, President

Mark Litteken, Treasurer

Deirdre Leland, Secretary

Alexandra Anderson-Spivy

Margaret Moran

Sara Potter Richards 


MAY 14, 2004

TO: ALL KNGG MEMBERS    

 
At Monday night's Town Board meeting, KNGG Board Member Meg Moran presented reasons to the board why it should implement a moratorium on all commercial development on Routes US9/NY 9H in Kinderhook until such time that a corridor study could be completed and implemented with changes to the zoning. Many of you have heard Meg speak at another Town Board meeting and Public Hearings in support of KNGG's mission.  As has always been her way, Meg has done her homework and researched this proposal thoroughly.        
 
Friday's Register-Star incorrectly headlined their article on this meeting as "Town Board says no to 9/9H moratorium."  The board did not say no.  They never took a vote to set it to a resolution which would have to be preceded by a public hearing.  The reporter was not visible that night, so we must assume that the article was based upon interviews.  Out of five board members, only two were interviewed.
 
Take a look at how these Town Board members are treating this serious issue.  Ask yourself, just how serious can they be?         
         
The Register-Star
May 14, 2004

Town Board says no to 9/9H moratorium

KINDERHOOK -- While some councilmen may acknowledged traffic congestion from the potential full commercial buildout on Routes 9 and 9H is concerning, the Town Board isn't ready to enact a moratorium on new construction pursue a broad traffic study.

Kinderhook Neighbors for Good Growth representative Meg Moran came before the Town Board recently proposing just that -- starting with at least a 90-day moratorium during which no approvals could be issued for commercials development proposals along the 9/9H corridor. The moratorium would give the town time to develop a traffic analysis to consider the impacts of traffic in the area from full commercial buildout of the corridor.

Moran called for computer program modeling, maybe taking advantage of utilities available from the state Department of Transportation. She said the Town Board could take results from a study and consider its results -- possibly using the information to re-evaluate the town's zoning ordinance.

Councilman Francis Vecellio said Moran tied the proposal for a large shopping center and one for Dunkin Donuts together to drive home her point, that all this proposed construction with potential high traffic flows will create a burden on an intersection that's already near failing, based on DOT admissions.

Vecellio said that Moran noted the need for a detailed traffic study, pointing to changing traffic growth numbers presented by the shopping center developer -- Widewaters -- and Dunkin Donuts.

Meanwhile, the town's 9/9H Corridor Study Committee has hit a snag in its efforts to provide better planning materials, Vecellio said. He said the committee was denied one grant and is considering applying to the DOT for a similar grant.

Vecellio said he doesn't support a moratorium, but he does support a more in-depth traffic study. "I'd like to see as much planning done as possible," he said.

Councilman Keith Stack agreed. "I don’t think the moratorium is necessary," he said. He said Moran didn’t make a case for why the moratorium is called for.

Planning Board Chairman Ed Simonsen said having better information with respect to commercial corridor development would be beneficial, especially if traffic measures were planned ahead of time. "I don’t know if there is a will to do that, though," Simonsen said.

Simonsen questioned whether information could come fast enough to benefit the Planning Board. "We just keep getting applications. Given the speed in which it occurs, I don’t know if this (study) will be helpful or not."

Vecellio said he believed any one project by itself won’t overburden Kinderhook’s infrastructure, but he said he believed if every parcel that could be developed along the corridor had full build-out with high-traffic businesses, that might stop being the case.

"I don’t see what’s on the table now as doing irreparable damage to traffic," Vecellio added.

Stack said the Town Board has supported the corridor study, but only to a point. "The discussion seems to be: We’re all for it as long as someone else pays for it," he said.

Stack said the board needs to decide whether the study is worth it. "I guess we have to be more convinced that we have to start the planning process," he said.


KNGG Editorial:

Every Town Board member should required to attend every Planning Board meeting.  I have always believed that they need to be better informed about planning and the needs of the Planning Board. The only Town Board member I recall having seen at Planning Board meetings on a regular basis has been Ken Wengler.  Mary Kramarchyk is the Town Board liaison to the ZBA.  Any time I have attended ZBA meetings, Mary has been there on the job.

Who is the Town Board liaison to the Planning Board?  Why is this member not attending the meetings?  The Town Board needs to be well informed on planning issues because they may well have some important decisions to make in the near future.

Allen Schaefer, President


If you believe in what KNGG is doing, please help out.  We are in need of funds to continue our mission.  Your contribution is tax deductible as allowed by law.



MAY 9, 2004
 
The following KNGG News Release has been sent to the press:
 
NEWS RELEASE

May 10, 2004

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

KINDERHOOK  MORATORIUM CALLED FOR

Kinderhook -- At the Monday evening Town of Kinderhook Board meeting, Kinderhook Neighbors for Good Growth (KNGG) will recommend that the Board declare a moratorium on commercial development on routes US9 and NY 9H in Kinderhook.

The KNGG Board of directors has been looking closely at the US9/NY 9H corridor regarding the impacts on the Town by Widewaters and Dunkin' Donuts proposed projects, if approved. A corridor study had been approved by the Town Board in April 2003 and a corridor study committee appointed but nothing happened because it was not funded. It now appears that developers think that the Widewaters project might be approved and commercial businesses such as Dunkin' Donuts and Stewart's etc. are jumping on the bandwagon looking to take advantage of customers Widewaters expects to bring to the rural area.

KNGG fears this will lead to suburban sprawl with a multitude of other fast food restaurants and big box stores. Allen Schaefer, president of KNGG states, "We understand that there will be growth here. However to maintain the character of the Town, we need to look at good growth. We need a plan for Kinderhook that is developed by the Town, not by the developers. At this time a moratorium is the Town’s only way to provide time to complete a corridor study and decide how to implement it."

KNGG Board member, attorney Meg Moran, was on the Town’s Comprehensive Plan Committee when the plan was being formulated. Ms Moran will present the KNGG recommendation to the Kinderhook Town Board Monday night.

Moran explained, "When the Town Comprehensive Plan was written, no traffic studies were done. Because there is no comprehensive study of the corridor, the KNGG Board of Directors has come to the conclusion that we must ask for a moratorium along these routes. It would only be for a given period. Just time enough for the Town to do the study and determine how to implement it. Because development is beginning to happen so quickly, KNGG believes that a moratorium is needed so the Town can manage this growth with thoughtful planning."

The Kinderhook Town Board meeting is Monday evening May 10th - 7:00 PM at the Kinderhook Town Hall, 4 Church Street in Niverville.

 
# # #


MAY 7, 2004
 
Dear KNGG Member:
 
The KNGG Board of directors has been looking closely at the US9/NY 9H corridor in conjunction with the impacts, if approved, the Widewaters and Dunkin' Donuts' proposals will have on the Town. A corridor study had been approved by the Town Board and a corridor study committee set up but nothing happened because it was not funded.  
 
It now appears that some developers believe that the Widewaters project will be approved.  So commercial businesses such as Dunkin' Donuts, Stewart's and who knows who else is jumping on the bandwagon to take advantage of customers Widewaters expects to bring to our area.
 
As there is no comprehensive study or policy to handle this situation, the KNGG Board of Directors has come to the conclusion that we must ask the Town Board to declare a moratorium on all commercial development along routes US9 and NY 9H in Kinderhook for a given period so the Town can make this study and then determine how to work it out.  Because things are beginning to happen so quickly, KNGG believes that a moratorium is the only way the Town can manage this growth with any thoughtful planning.
 
KNGG Board Member Meg Moran will present the KNGG recommendation to the Town Board this
Monday evening at the Kinderhook Town Board Meeting, 7:00 PM at Town Hall in Niverville.
 
The KNGG Board and I ask that you support us in this most important endeavor by coming to the Town Board Meeting on Monday night.  Be sure to bring your neighbor.  There will be no need to speak at this time; just to be there to show support.  Before a moratorium can be adopted, a public hearing must be held.
 
Although Meg has spoken for us previously at public hearings and a Town Board Meeting last summer, this is the first time KNGG will make a good growth recommendation to the Board for improvement of our Town. Please come out Monday night.  The KNGG Board Members and I look forward to seeing you at Town Hall this Monday evening May 10th - 7:00 PM.
 
Very truly yours,
Allen Schaefer, President
 
TOWN BOARD MEETING
Monday, May 10 - 7:00 PM
Town Hall, Niverville

MAY4, 2004
TO: ALL KNGG MEMBERS
DUNKIN’ DONUTS proposed site at Routes US9, 9H apex

HELP SHOW SUPPORT &

INFORCEMENT OF THE NEW CODE

TO SHOW SUPPORT KNGG URGES YOU TO ATTEND
THIS ZBA PUBLIC HEARING
 
Thursday - May 6th - 7:30 pm - Town Hall - Niverville
We want no more signage than allowed by the new code!
Dunkin Donuts has applied to the ZBA for 3 variances

1.   Variance request to increase amount of signage to double what is allowed by code.

2.   Variance request to build using less setbacks.

3.   Variance requesr for lot coverage is pending. 

If on Thursday night, the ZBA turns down variance No. 2 or No. 3, the Dunkin' Donuts' project will not fly and it will be over.  The Planning Board would have no further say. 

Please come and tell the ZBA why you believe Dunkin' Donuts showln not be granted any variance.


ON THE WEB - www.KNGG.org - Go to CURRENT ISSUES & Click on "Dunkin Donuts."

KNGG continues its courageous struggle against the Widewaters Mall proposal and the Dunkin Donuts' proposal.  We have been monitoring every Planning Board and ZBA meeting.  Funds for legal fees and engineering are low. We need your help to continue. Please contribute today.
 

 Your contribution to KNGG is tax deductible as allowed by law.

MAY 3, 2004
TO: ALL KNGG MEMBERS
DUNKIN’ DONUTS 

NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING

a Public Hearing for three variances for
double signage and setback
for the Dunkin' Donuts proposed site
 
ZBA - Thursday - May 6th - 7:30 PM 
Kinderhook Town Hall, Niverville
 
We ask you to come and participate at this public hearing.  The sprawl may be small but is a beginning.  The location for a drive-thru restaurant is expecting to serve one car every 30 seconds in peak traffic is a danger to our community.  For more information please see our web site under CURRENT ISSUES.               

 
KNGG continues its courageous struggle against Widewaters.  Funds are running low and need to be replenished.  "THIS MALL IS NOT A DONE DEAL."  We still have a chance however we need to pay our bills to be able to continue.   If you have not renewed your membership this year,  please do.  If you can possibly spare an additional contribution.  Please do.  We need all the help we can get to keep going. Your contribution to KNGG is tax deductible as allowed by law.

 
Evaluation: Roundabout Presentation Kinderhook Town Planning Board
April 21, 2004

On Wednesday evening April 21, 2004, The Kinderhook Town Planning Board, having requested meetings with the NYS DOT and having waited three years, was finally granted an audience, thanks to the Widewaters Group, in the form of Howard McCulloch’s roundabout presentation.

ON THIS SITE - GO TO ROUNDABOUT click on "introduction" and "Road Show"



APRIL 28, 2004

TO: ALL KNGG MEMBERS
On February 2, 2003 The KNGG Board of Directors voted to support Lindenwald in restoring its original boundaries. Not only would this be of historical significance but also it would preserve farmland and the site from any future commercial development.

The expansion program is being handled through agreements with current landowners that have agreed to advise the park service first if they intend to sell. They own their farmland and will have full use of it.

The process has gone through all local review. Next Congressman Sweeney will introduce a bill to set the boundary. This is a necessary procedure before any permanent structures can be added to the site. KNGG believes Lindenwald is a jewel in Kinderhook’s pocket, which has not been fully appraised.

NOW LINDENWALD NEEDS OUR HELP - Below is a letter from Richard Anderson, President of Friends of Lindenwald who asks our support of the boundary proposal by writing to Congressman Congressman John Sweeney. The details are below:

ON THIS SITE GO TO CURRENT ISSUES - Click on "Lindendald"


KNGG continues its courageous struggle against the Widewaters Mall proposal.  We have been monitoring every Planning Board and ZBA meeting.  Funds for legal fees and engineering are running low. We need your help to continue. Please contribute today.
 

 Your contribution to KNGG is tax deductible as allowed by law.

APRIL 24, 2004 
TO: ALL KNGG MEMBERS  
ROUNDABOUT SHOWS UP ON KNGG WEB SITE
The KNGG Roundabout chapter is open and ready to view!
What Marco and Howard don't want you to know about roundabouts is there!
It's ready for your enjoyment. www.kngg.org

PAGE ONE
Today's Register-Star "DOT Takes Roundabout to Planning Board"
We will be discussing this controversial meeting Monday night at our Quarterly  Meeting.
Be sure to come.  It's important!

 
KNGG MEMBERSHIP MEETING
& 2nd ANNIVERSARY CELEBRATION
Monday April 26th - 7:30 PM - McNary Center
                                 at St Paul's on Sylvester St., Kinderhook Village                                
 
Is KNGG about disliking the big box?  NO. . . IT'S MUCH MORE! KNGG is about saving our countryside and homes from urban sprawl and protecting our green spaces in this historic town.  We're the only ones doing it in Kinderhook.

"Kinderhook Neighbors for Good Growth, is actively fighting Widewaters and it’s important for our community that they are. Their mission is to save Kinderhook from box malls and becoming a carbon copy of East Greenbush or Greenport. They wonder if the town is going to let Widewaters get away with black-topping 20 acres of farmland, blocking the Catskill views with box-like structures, and making 9-9H intersection worse than it is? "

Clayton Van Alstyne -The Chatham Courier - July 10, 2003

Now, KNGG needs your financial support.  We need help to cover our expenses. Funds must be raised to cover our recent roundabout engineering evaluation, legal fees and web site expenses. Contributions are tax deductible as allowed by law. Won't you help to preserve what we have in Kinderhook? 

Allen Schaefer, President


APRIL 23, 2004 

TO: ALL KNGG MEMBERS      

You are invited to attend
the KNGG 2nd Year Anniversary Celebration and Quarterly Meeting.
Monday - April 26, 2004 - 7:30 till 9:30
The McNary Center, St. Paul's Episcopal Church - Village of Kinderhook  
 
The Agenda
Guest Speaker:
Seth McKee is Director of Policy and Programs of Scenic Hudson Land Trust and has spear-headed our farmland preservation program in the Valley. He is also interested in hearing our thoughts on other prospects for protection in the area.
 
Forum:  A discussion of what happened at Wednesday night's Planning Board Meeting with Marco and the DOT and how it may effect us.
 
Jeff Baker, attorney,  will be on hand to answer your questions.
 
A KNGG Vision - after Widewaters - We need your input on this.
How do you invision KNGG once Widewaters comes to a conclusion.
 
Your attedance at this meeting is of vital importance to KNGG and our community.

 
IN THE NEWS TODAY FRIDAY APRIL 23rd   
Be sure to pick up both the Independent and the Register-Star on Friday.  Reporters from both papers covered the Wednesday night Planning Board Workshop and you could get a better prospective of the happenings by looking at the two papers.
 
And an even better prospective from the KNGG view point of the Wed. PB meeting
will be available at our meeting Monday night.    
 
Revised Calendar
Monday April 26th - 7:30 PM - McNary Center at St. Paul's in Kinderhook Village
KNGG Celebrates 2nd Anniversary!!!  - Join in the celebration!
Agenda:
Presentation by Scenic Hudson
Widewaters, the DOT and KNGG
KNGG VISION
Questions for Jeff Baker, KNGG attorney.
 
Thursday May 6th - 7:30 PM - Town Hall
ZBA Public Hearing continues on Dunkin' Donuts' three variance application
Go to CURRENT ISSUES - click on Dunkin' Donuts)
The hearing is still open and your letters are will be accepted until May 6th.
 
Monday May 10th - 7:00 PM - Town Hall
Kinderhook Town Council Meets
Your contribution to KNGG is tax deductible as allowed by law.
We need your help to be able to pay our attorney and traffic engineer. 


APRIL 19, 2004
TO: ALL KNGG MEMBERS   
 
"WIDEWATERS WITHDREW ITS APPLICATION FROM THE COUNTY PLANNING BOARD,"  today advised County Planner Patrice Perry.  Although no explanation was given to explain why, we suspect that Widewaters was once again late with needed documents such as the latest drawing of the proposed roundabout incorporating two lanes on its westside and one lane on the east.
 
Chairman Ed Simonsen of the Kinderhook Town Planning Board advised his board Thursday that although this drawing was dated March 17, 2004, it was only received April 15.  We assume that Widewaters has been slow in getting documents to the County Planners as well.
 
This is not the end.  For sure, they will reapply to the County.
 
To give some insight into the function of the County Planning Board with regards to Widewaters, we are reprinting part of an article from yesterday's Register-Star:
 
The Register-Star

By Joe Prout - April 18, 2003

County Planning Board Looks into Widewaters

The Columbia County Planning Board meeting next week (Tuesday April 20th) will review the Widewaters shopping center proposal that has taken the Kinderhook Planning Board roughly three years to review…

…The center is proposed at the intersection of those two routes (US9 and NY 9H) with State Farm Road. At the intersection, the developer proposed a roundabout, a traffic remedy approved (recommended) by the Department of Transportation that has been scrutinized at the local level.

County Planner Patrice Perry said the county board will review the whole project. She said the board needs to offer an opinion on the shopping center site plan before Kinderhook’s Planning Board can take final action.

Perry said the county is in charge of looking at whether the shopping center would have either a countywide or inter-community impact. She said it’s up to the board members to make that decision.

Highway Department Commissioner David Robinson, who is not involved with this project or its review thus far, took a moment to offer a county perspective on the roundabout. Robinson said there are no roundabouts in the county highway system, nor are there any intersections at a stage where such a project would be considered.

Robinson said the county Planning Board might ask what the functionality of the current proposal is.

"We don’t have any opinion on whether it would be the way to go or not the way to go," he said.


THE WIDEWATERS STRIP MALL AND ROUNDABOUT IS NOT A "DONE DEAL."  With or without approval of the DOT, which recommends a roundabout for the 9/9H intersection, if it is not approved by the County Planning Board first, then the Town Planning Board - the project will not fly.  We have an out of state traffic engineering firm working on a report of this roundabout.  We'll have more news on this soon.


Revised Calendar

Wednesday April 21st - 7:00 PM - Town Hall

At a "special" Town Planning Board Workshop Widewaters will try to negotiate the roundabout with help from DOT "salesmen" who are hot on the idea.
 
This meeting is open to the public
. . . We ask you to show your concern and support of KNGG by attending.
There will be no public comment period.
 
Monday April 26th - 7:30 PM - McNary Center at St. Paul's in Kinderhook Village
KNGG Celebrates 2nd Birthday!!!  - Join in the celebration!
Agenda: Presentation by Scenic Hudson - Open Forum for Membership Questions and Jeff Baker, KNGG attorney.
 
Thursday May 6th - 7:30 PM - Town Hall
ZBA Public Hearing continues on Dunkin' Donuts three variance application
(www.kngg.org Go to CURRENT ISSUES - click on Dunkin' Donuts)
The hearing is still open and your letters are will be accepted until May 6th.
 
Monday May 10th - 7:00 PM - Town Hall
Kinderhook Town Council Meets
Your contribution to KNGG is tax deductible as allowed by law.

APRIL 18, 2004
 
TO: ALL KNGG MEMBERS           
 
The KNGG Board of Directors met tonight, Sunday April 19th.  One of the major issues under discussion was the Widewaters roundabout.  We expect to have some good news about this from our new out of state traffic engineer. This will be presented to the Planning  Board Wednesday evening (April 21st) at their Roundabout Workshop with Widewaters.
 
This should make for an interesting evening.  So interesting that our attorney Jeff Baker will be present. Please join us:
 
Wednesday - April 21st - 7:00 PM - Town Hall in Niverville
Special Planning Board Workshop to edit Widewaters' DFEIS
PLEASE JOIN US. . . 
IT'S VERY IMPORTANT FOR KNGG
TO SHOW THE PLANNING BOARD WE ARE STILL INTERESTED.
 
TOPIC FOR REVIEW:  THE ROUNDABOUT

 
We will be celebrating our  2nd anniversary on Monday April 26th at The McNary Center at St. Paul's in Kinderhook Village.  All are invited!  The festivities will begin at 7:30 with talk by Scenic Hudson and what they are doing in the area to preserve land.
 
The remainder of the evening will be devoted to you, our members.  There will be an open forum for you to ask questions.  Once again our attorney, Jeff Baker, will be on hand to give you an informative answer.
 
We will also have an announcement that you will not want to miss.
Help blow out the candles!  Have a piece of cake!  Join in the celebrations.
 

Your contribution to KNGG is tax deductible as allowed by law.

 
APRIL 16, 2004
TO: ALL KNGG MEMBERS 
 
TOWN PLANNING BOARD MET APRIL 15th       
 
It was so good to see a good crowd at tonight's Planning Board meeting.  Letters to the Planning Board regarding Widewaters mall and roundabout and Dunkin' Donuts have been coming in slowly but surely.  Thank you and please keep them coming.  They are mentioned and sometimes read at the meetings.  It's important to show the board that the public is interested and concerned.
 
Allen Schaefer, President

KNGG LAWN SIGNS

  JOIN THE SAFETY YES CAMPAIGN!
AND GET YOUR NEW LAWN SIGN
 
NEW LAWN SIGNS ARE AVAILABLE
and they are FREE!
 
To get your sign, please call:
Abbey Cash 758-7588 DAILY
John Picket 758-7520 DAILY
Sue Chiafullo758-2944 WEEKENDS
 
JOIN WITH OUR MEMBERS TO EXPRESS YOUR OPINION.
 
GET INVOLVED - PUT OUT A SIGN!
 
JOIN THE SAFETY YES CAMPAIGN TODAY!

 
Widewaters' - No one was at the meeting representing Widewaters.  PB Members were advises by Chairman Ed Simonsen that the latest revised plan for the roundabout arrived that afternoon.  It was noted that the plan is dated March 17, 2004.  Ed Simonsen wondered why it took from March 17th to April 15 for Widewaters to get this plan to the Planning Board since it could have been sent four weeks ago. 
 
Widewaters will meet with the Planning Board April 21st to negotiate the roundabout.  The DOT will be present and it is most important to show your support.  This is a workshop meeting and no public comment period will be offered.
 
Wed. - APRIL 21 - 7:00 PM - TOWN HALL
PLANNING BOARD MEETS with WIDEWATERS
to NEGOTIATE the ROUNDABOUT
PLEASE ATTEND - IT'S VERY IMPORTANT
TO SHOW SUPPORT AT THIS TIME.
 
 
156 Fordham Road Nursery Public Hearing (Hall Holding Corp.) - The Planning Board voted to keep the Public Hearing open.  This means that anyone who wishes can still write letters of opinion to the Planning Board.
 
The hearing was declared open because it must be determined if the business operating out of 156 Fordham Road is in fact a farmland nursery producing plants on the site for sale on site or in fact a landscaping business with heavy truck traffic going in and out of the property daily.  The New York State Department of Agriculture and Marketing has agreed to meet with the Planning Board at the next workshop on May 13 to help the board make this determination. The public hearing is scheduled to continue on May 20th.
 
Meg Moran represented a neighborhood group that opposes the proposed business.  Meg introduced many interesting questions that will need to be answered before a determination can be made. 
 
A few people spoke in favor of the project including Michael Leiser, former owner and Planning Board member who has recused himself.  Mr. Leiser believes Mr. Hall will be "a good neighbor."
 
Most of the people that spoke were against the project.  These were primarily residents of Norris Drive, Fordham Road and Bishop Nelson Road.  All of them feared that the business would open as a small farm nursery and soon grow into a major landscaping business which should be located in a business district.  One objection stated was the excess of heavy duty traffic on these local roads that are county lanes not built to handle this heavy equipment on a regular basis.  They don't like the idea of all additional traffic because the streets will no longer be safe for walking, bicycling, running, children and pets.  They also object to the noise of this equipment as is goes from the site to various locations.
 
Two of the people that spoke actually complained that equipment was already on the site and operating out of it on to local streets.  Ms Moran mentioned to the board that Mr. Hall, the owner, has already been cited for keeping his landscaping equipment in an area not zoned for such use.
 
To steal a line from the Bard, - Something's rotten - on Fordham Road.

Your contribution to KNGG is tax deductible as allowed by law. 

 
Stewart's and Trustco Drive-thru Bank - May 20th was set for a public hearing on Stewart's second building to house a Trustco Bank.  Much of the time was spent discussing handicap parking and lighting.  KNGG is concerned because of the drive-thru traffic as it merges with Stewart's traffic on to Rout 9 or Route 9H.  This island between two major highways is fast becoming a haven of drive-thrus.  Now besides Stewart's and McDonald's  we have a proposed Trustco Bank and a Dunkin' Donuts.

 
PLEASE WRITE

The ZBA has "DECLARED PUBLIC HEARING OPEN."

COMMENTS on WIDEWATERS ROOF PITCH VARIANCE

are still being accepted.

Write NOW to Kinderhook Town ZBA, P O Box P, Niverville NY 12130

ALSO BE SURE TO COPY IN THE MEDIA:

The Chatham Courier: courier@localnet.com The Independent: letters@indenews.com

The Register-Star: editorial@registerstar.com

Widewaters wants a flat roof on their big box Hannaford building. The code says "NO!"  The code must be supported. Otherwise precedence will dictate that the next developer wanting to put up "big box," flat roof structures will be allowed a variance also. Tell the ZBA this variance must be turned down to save Kinderhook's Route 9/9H Corridor from becoming an avenue of big boxes. It must be turned down to save the Town's rural traditional character.

Widewaters claims they cannot build their planned building with a traditional roof.

Not true.  KNGG has submitted drawings by architect Alvin Knoll showing the Widewaters building with a traditional roof.  He has proved with dimensions that, mathematically, it will work.  It can be done.

For details on the ZBA Hearing of November 17th - see KNGG eNEWS 

on the web at www.kngg.org

 
Dunkin' Donuts is now required to go through the SEQRA process and the Planning Board has declared itself the lead agency.  Besides the 3 variances DD is trying for at the ZBA, they will need to prove that the site is safe, traffic wise, for a drive-thru business.  Ed Simonsen was nominated by the board to select a traffic engineer due to the fact that the usual engineer, Shelly Johnson has declined the offer.
 
The public hearings for Dunkin Donuts with the ZBA (Zoning Board of Appeals) are set for May 6th.  Please keep your letters coming in on this issue to the ZBA.
 
DUNKIN’ DONUTS proposes site at Routes US9, 9H 
& State Farm Road apex in Kinderhook.              

NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING

a Public Hearing for two a variances for
double signage, lot coverage and setback
for the Dunkin' Donuts proposed site
ZBA - Thursday - May 6th - 7:30 PM 
Kinderhook Town Hall, Niverville

 BE SURE TO VISIT THE KNGG WEB SITE


APRIL 13, 2004
TO:  ALL KNGG MEMBERS
 
HERE IS A PAGE FROM OUR WEB SITE  - "URGENT ACTION"
IT'S LOCATED UNDER CURRENT ISSUES
THESE ARE TOP URGENT HAPPENINGS THAT WE NEED YOUR HELP WITH . . .
 

      
URGENT///ACTION///NEEDED
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 
 PLANNING BOARD MEETS
THIS THURSDAY - APRIL 15 - 7:00 PM TOWN HALL NIVERVILLE
PLEASE ATTEND ... IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE ARE SEEN
Agenda: Stewart's Trustco Bank -
PUBLIC HEARING: Fordham Rd. Nursery & Landscaping 

 
Wednesday APRIL 21 - 7:00 PM - TOWN HALL
PLANNING BOARD MEETS with WIDEWATERS to NEGOTIATE the FDEIS
PLEASE ATTEND 
It's IMPORTANT!
the Widewaters DFEIS (Draft Final Environmental Impact Statement)
is currently under review.
ROUNDABOUT IS TOPIC FOR THE EVENING

 
Dear Member:
It is very important that we, the citizens of Kinderhook NY let our Planning Board members and other Town officials know that we are not asleep.  We need to let them know we are very much awakeWe need to let them know that we are alert.
 
They need to know we care about what's happening in our Town.  They must be aware that we have deep concern about the roundabout proposal, about Widewaters, about   Dunkin' Donuts and the Trustco Bank drive through.
 
At last Wednesday night's Planning Board Workshop only two KNGG members plus myself were in attendance.  8 to 10 people from the opposition were there.
 
This is not the time to relax. As we get closer to the final Planning Board vote, it's important that we keep our energy up. We must demonstrate that we still do not want Widewaters mall nor do we want its roundabout forced upon us.
All of us must get everyone we know to attend these Planning Board meetings.
It's important.  Caring spreads.  Show them we still care! Come to the meetings.
 
Allen Schaefer, President 


APRIL 11, 2004 
TO:  ALL KNGG MEMBERS
 
IN THE INDEPENDENT

Published Friday April 9, 2004

MATTHEW SHEEHEY reported: Allen Schaefer, KNGG president, said in an e-mail sent after the meeting that planners should have had a lighting expert and a landscaper on hand. "They [board members] seemed in over their heads by terminology," he wrote. "What we had here was an attorney [Marco Marzocchi of Widewaters] planning the largest development for Kinderhook to date with lay people. It was the blind leading the blind."

"If this mall gets built," Mr. Schaefer said, "it will have been designed by amateurs when the experts should have been called in."

Mr. Simonsen, whose board is lead agency on the Widewaters application review, took umbrage at those remarks. "That's emotional, inflammatory language," he said. "That certainly doesn't do justice to our concern for the project."

Widewaters' landscape designers and architects are not amateurs, he said, and Kinderhook has a qualified Planning Board.

A KNGG EDITORIAL

I am sorry that Mr. Simonsen took umbrage in my statement. I’m afraid that the statement which I wrote after that late Planning Board Workshop on Wednesday evening (2:00 AM) was worded poorly. It was in no way meant as a criticism of Mr. Simonsen and the Planning Board of which he is the chairman. The criticism was meant to be of the Town procedure.

The Widewaters’ proposal is the largest ever to be reviewed in Kinderhook and as the first of its kind it will set a precedence for all future commercial development in the Town. The volunteer board of lay persons could have used the advice of more specialists such as an architect, light designer and a landscaper who understood the complex terminology and technology involved.  For the most of the discussion on Wednesday evening, the board had to rely upon the developer’s word.

Below is a quotation from local architect Kate Johns. It demonstrates that the Town should have retained experts because Widewaters has been trying to pull a fast one on the Town with their so called "experts." (SEQRA allows for the developer to pay a substantial part of these fees.)

Kate Johns, AIA, Old Chatham, New York 12136

Ms Johns is Principle and owner of an architecture firm specializing in historic preservation and contextual new construction and site design.

The Kinderhook Zoning Code contains specific design guidelines for roofs and those guidelines are clearly intended to promote a particular design preference for roof types that evoke the historical – cultural heritage of the Kinderhook area and the Town’s vision of its future development.

  • The alternate designs presented by QPK Design (for Widewaters) in the Brace affidavit are clearly intended to present the worst possible scenario for complying with the design standards of the zoning code – QPK has chosen alternatives that maximize the roof pitch and design the roofs as monolithic entities to emphasize the mass and height of the structures.
  • Instead of single roof elements as proposed there are numerous other alternatives that should have been presented which would break up the roof line and remain consistent with the code without requiring a variance or would closely comply with the code and require a minimal variance (i.e. – different roof slopes)
  • Among the alternatives not presented are: multiple side-by-side gables and multiple cross gables.
  • Other alternatives can be developed if the size and/or configuration of buildings 4 and 4a are altered – difficulties with complying with the code are direct result of the applicant’s choice of building size and configuration. The footprint of building 4a alone is the same size as the aggregate footprints of approximately 39 traditional main street buildings at plus or minus 20’ x 50’.
  • In my professional opinion, Widewaters’ architect has provided a biased and incomplete presentation of alternative styles that can comply with the code thus portraying the requested variance as the only reasonable alternative. Widewaters should be required to present realistic alternatives consistent with my above comments as there are a variety of means of meeting the code requirements without creating an unsightly structure.
Kate John's qualifications can be seen on the KNGG web site:
Go to WIDEWATERS SDEIS COMMENTS and click on "Architectural ZBA Variance."

Needing the help of experts in a specialized fields is not to be looked down upon.

Mr. Simonsen and the Kinderhook Town Planning Board have been working very hard in reviewing the Widewaters application since 2001. I know this very well because I’ve attended almost every planning board meeting since February 2002. I have seen the diligent work they have done with this developer and others.

The Planning Board meets usually twice monthly but because of the complexity of the Widewaters application, they have often met three and four times a month. Many a meeting lasted from seven till after eleven in the evening. I understand that it is tiring working with the unfamiliar. Specialized consultation beginning earlier in the process would have been advantageous for them and the Town.

I see this planning board as a hard working dedicated group of citizens and I have never wished to offend them.

Allen Schaefer, president


THURSDAY'S PLANNING BOARD WORKSHOP

Ed Simonsen was absent, we understand with a severe headache.  Possibly it was from the four hour grilling the board took the night before from Marco Marzocchi of Widewaters.  The workshop was chaired by Richard Anderson.  Others members present were Gerry Minot-Scheureman, Mary Ellen Hern, Bob Cramer, alternate, Cheryl Gilbert, alternate, Pat Prenderghast, Town engineer, Marc Gold, planning board attorney and Barbara Beaucage, secretary.
 
Fordham Road Nursery and Landscaping's (Hall Holding Corp.) application is now before the Planning Board.  The opposition has been taken up by a local neighborhood group who have retained Meg Moran to represent them.  KNGG plans to report on these proceedings because of the precedence this project may set for the Town.
 
Hall Holding is now amending the site plan.  When first submitted, it was to be a ten acre nursery and landscaping business with products grown on the property.  Then it was to be a subdivision with 5 of the 10 acres becoming residential and 5 acres to be used for the business.  Thursday night another plan was presented, three acres residential and seven acres for the business.
 
To the best of our knowledge there is no water or electricity available on the property. Some things in the code are not clear because the Town may or may not be over ridden by AG and Market "guidelines," a NY State department dealing with agriculture.
 
Stewarts Shops was represented once more.  They were racked over the coals for the poor lighting design they put into the new location near the Widewaters proposed site.  The Planning Board would like the light design to be changed to that similar to the Stewart's in the Village of Kinderhook.
 
The reasons for Stewart's reappearance is because they want approval to put up a building at their new location for a Trustco drive through bank.  KNGG's main objection is to the drive through facility.  Nearby, in addition to Stewart's gas pumps is a McDonalds, the Hudson River Bank drive through across US9, a proposed drive through Dunkin' Donuts and the proposed Widewaters project with either a drive through bank or possibly restaurant.  It is believed with all these drive throughs it would congest the entrance to the US9, NY 9H intersection, especially if a roundabout is approved because the traffic signals would be removed.
 
It is important to take a look at the whole area, not just one project.

Your contribution to KNGG is tax deductible as allowed by law.

The following 3 articles reprinted with permission from the Home Town Advantage Bulletin, a free e-mail newsletter published by the Institute for Local Self-Reliance. To read back issues or join the mailing list, visit
www.newrules.org/hta .

Albany County Declines Wal-Mart Donation

Citing Wal-Mart's failure to provide a decent wage and health benefits for most of its employees, the Albany (New York) County Legislature voted in March to decline a $1,000 donation from the corporation.

The donation had been earmarked for the county's low-income health care program, but many lawmakers saw it as a disingenuous attempt to appear responsive to community needs. They noted that county programs are undoubtedly covering the health care costs of many Wal-Mart employees and their families. Most Wal-Mart workers are either ineligible for the company's health care plan or unable to afford the premiums.

"We should send that $1,000 back to Wal-Mart, back to Arkansas, and tell them to give it to their employees for health insurance," said Legislator Gary Domalewicz. "We shouldn't help them enhance their corporate image."

The donation was rejected on a bipartisan 33-4 vote.


Surprise Defeat for Wal-Mart in Inglewood

In a stunning upset that made headlines around the globe, voters in Inglewood, California, overwhelmingly defeated a ballot measure on April 6 that would have opened the way for a massive Wal-Mart supercenter. The final tally was 7,049 against and 4,575 in favor.

The unprecedented measure would have given Wal-Mart complete control over a 60-acre site, allowing it to bypass the public process and build a supercenter and other chain retail stores without any of the normal environmental, traffic, or zoning reviews. Although the initiative, which was written by Wal-Mart, only needed a simple majority to pass, one of its provisions stipulated that repealing the measure or altering the terms of the development would require support from two-thirds of voters.

"This is the first time in the country they've tried to do something this extreme," said Madeline Janis-Aparicio, leader of the Coalition for a Better Inglewood, which formed to fight the initiative. Had the measure succeeded, it likely would have become a blueprint for Wal-Mart and other developers seeking to skirt the planning process in cities and towns across California.

Although there were indications in the final days that the vote might be closer than expected, Wal-Mart had been predicted to win. The company outspent opponents many times over. Final figures

on spending are not yet available, but Wal-Mart spent well over $1 million on the campaign itself and several million more on television advertisements that are considered part of its normal operations and will not count in the spending tally. It hired advertising and public relations firms, and employed an army of people to canvas the city door-to-door.

Much of Wal-Mart's campaign message was infused with race and class themes. "It's important that Inglewood consumers have the same shopping that many of the neighboring communities have had for years," Wal-Mart spokesman Peter Kanelos repeated throughout the campaign. Wal-Mart's television ads and fliers featured smiling African-Americans talking about how good a supercenter would be for Inglewood and how much the company cares about its employees and the community. It touted the jobs that would be created for local youth.

Inglewood, which is part of the Los Angeles metro, has a population of 112,000, split evenly between African-Americans and Latinos. The city's median household income is $34,000, about 20 percent lower than the national average, and its unemployment rate is 8.4 percent.

The opposition----which included labor unions, local business owners, community groups, religious leaders, and dozens of elected officials---had far less money to work with. The Coalition for a Better Inglewood budgeted $35,000 for its campaign. The Los Angeles County Federation of Labor put up $125,000.

But they made up for the gap in financial resources with volunteers, rallies, and grassroots communication networks. Churches and mosques, for example, disseminated information and facilitated discussions within their congregations. Opponents emphasized that a supercenter would force local businesses to close, eliminate jobs, and depress wages.

They also talked about the damage the initiative would do to community self-determination. "This is . . . about protecting democratic processes," State Assemblyman Jerome Horton, who represents Inglewood in Sacramento, told the Los Angeles Times. "It's about ensuring every citizen has a voice in any development that could have a negative impact on their community."

The fight began in October 2002. Wal-Mart indicated interest in building a supercenter in Inglewood and the City Council responded with an ordinance that banned stores over 155,000 square feet that sell more than 20,000 nontaxable items (i.e., food). Wal-Mart threatened a lawsuit and the city rescinded the ordinance.

Angry that the council backed down, Wal-Mart opponents, led by the United Food and Commercial Workers union, which represents supermarket workers who make higher wages than employees at competing supercenters, helped elect a new member to the city council. Fearing that the ordinance would be reinstated, Wal-Mart gathered the 6,500 signatures necessary to put its initiative on the ballot. (The signature gatherers were paid more than the company's cashiers.)

The Inglewood outlet would have been Wal-Mart's first supercenter in Los Angeles County. The company wants to open more than forty across the state, but has encountered resistance in many areas. In some cases, Wal-Mart has overcome the opposition; last month, it persuaded voters in Contra Costa County to overturn an ordinance banning supercenters. But elsewhere, concerns about Wal-Mart's predatory tactics and low wages appear to be growing. The city of Los Angeles is weighing a measure to ban supercenters. Bills have been introduced in the legislature that would force Wal-Mart to provide health insurance to more of its employees and pay for economic impact studies before it could build stores.

-- For more on the fight in Inglewood, see the Los Angeles Alliance for a New Economy.
--
The LA Weekly has had excellent coverage of Wal-Mart's tactics in Inglewood.


Report Finds Wal-Mart's Low Wages Cost Taxpayers Millions

Taxpayers are picking up the tab for Wal-Mart's low wages and meager benefits, according to a new congressional report.

Prepared by the Democratic staff of the House Committee on Education and the Workforce and released by Rep. George Miller in February, the report concludes that the federal government is providing an average of $2,100 annually in public assistance per Wal-Mart employee. This includes Section 8 housing assistance, reduced-cost lunches and health care programs for the children of Wal-Mart employees, and tax credits for the working poor.

The report concludes that taxpayers are effectively subsidizing Wal-Mart's labor costs, giving the company an advantage over more responsible employers. "There's no question that Wal-Mart imposes a huge, often hidden, cost on its workers, our communities, and U.S. taxpayers," said Miller. "Wal-Mart is in the driver's seat in the global race to the bottom."

The report documents the Wal-Mart's labor practices, including its wage and benefit policies, history of discrimination and labor law violations, and role in shifting manufacturing to low-wage countries.

The company has responded to growing criticism of its treatment of workers with a multi-million dollar television ad campaign featuring employees talking about how great it is to work at Wal-Mart. The company has also beefed up its campaign contributions. Last year, Wal-Mart's political action committee ranked as the top corporate donor to federal parties and candidates.

-- "Everyday Low Wages: The Hidden Price We All Pay for Wal-Mart"                         

 

Your contribution to KNGG is tax deductible as allowed by law.

 
APRIL 8, 2004
TO:  ALL KNGG MEMBERS            

 
"I will not be persuaded by self-proclaimed experts - KNGG has not given any expert advise on this roundabout recently."  . . . "The roundabout situation should not be settled by lawn signs, but by the experts."
--- Planning Board member Don Gaylord at the Wednesday night April 7, 2004 Planning Board workshop meeting.
 
It is very important for KNGG to be able to retain a traffic engineer that is not afraid to differ with the DOT.  For this reason, we are going out of state.  We must have funds to cover this engineer's fees.
If you have not renewed your KNGG membership for 2004, please do so asap.  Without you, we just can't do it.
 
YOUR CONTRIBUTION TO KNGG IS TAX DEDUCTIBLE AS ALLOWED BY LAW.

 
PLANNING BOARD MET WITH WIDEWATERS
- Wednesday April 7, 2004
 
The Town Planning Board held a special Workshop set up to facilitate Widewaters tonight at Town Hall.  The meeting began at 7:00 PM and didn't finish till 11:05 PM.
 
The meeting had been set up to review Widewaters' DFEIS (Draft Final Environmental Impact Statement) and rewrite it to suit the board because when finalized the document will contain everything the Planning Board agreed to.  This did not happen.
 
Instead Chairman Ed Simonsen suggested that the board look at, discuss and come to terms with the site plan.  It was at once announced by the chairman that once something is discussed, it will not be brought up for discussion again.
 
Without a professional light designer for consultation,  although Mary Ellen Hern made references to the KNGG submission by light designer Howard Brandston, the board reviewed the light design plan.
 
To be brief, they accepted 30 foot light poles, "more attractive" light fixtures with high pressure sodium bulbs.  Hours of operation were left open within the guideline - Hannaford will close at
11:00 PM - parking lights, with exception of a few security lights, will go off at 11:30 PM, provided all other shops close before 11:00 PM.  If the restaurant will be a restaurant, they would be expected to stay open till 2:00 AM - lights out at 2:30 AM.  A few more lights will come on at 3:00 AM when Hannaford deliveries begin.  It was noted that the mall will NOT have a 24 hour security service.  Does this mean they will have a security service on the premises during open hours?  We have no idea because it was not discussed.
 
Lighting for the roundabout was NOT discussed.
 
Landscaping was discussed within the parking lot and on the premises as a whole.  The board did not have a professional landscaper on hand for consultation.
 
A whole  half hour was wasted quibbling with Marco Marzocchi as to whether or not Widewaters should fence in the retention pond.  I say wasted because Marco said he'd put one in but went on demanding to know why it was needed.  Finally it was agreed that a 4 foot fence would  be built around the pond as a safety factor in a residential area to keep preschool children from harm.
 
The Niverville Fire Department must buy in on being capable servicing the project. No word to date.
 
Marc Gerstman, special Planning Board attorney, suggested that the board be given a document by Widewaters to the effect that none of the stores could open till the roundabout is completed.  Planning Board engineer, Shelly Johnson, stated that this would be a condition of the permit.
 
Once again the matter of "cross access" (access management) was addressed.  Marco held up the Stewart's site plan and said, he'd do the same as Stewarts which is to give the PB a letter to the effect, that "We will work to provide access in future. No more.  I'm not going to talk about it."
 
This was a good lesson in precedence for the board.
 
Next, the roundabout:
Marc Gerstman was told by Marco before the meeting that the DOT would NOT approve the bypass of the roundabout into the mall.  It's not official because the Town once again has NOT been officially notified by the DOT.
 
Don Gaylord said, "I will not be persuaded by self-proclaimed experts - KNGG has not given any expert advise on this roundabout."
 
Ed Simonsen replied, "I evaluate every comment before making a decision."
 
Don came back with, "The roundabout situation should not be settled by lawn signs, but by the experts."
 
It went on and on for 40 minutes until Ed Simonsen said, "I'm not unconvinced the roundabout is un safe."  (How do you like that for a double negative?)  "The issue if not safety, is longevity."
 
Marco exclaimed, "I have not seen one expert come here and say this in not workable."
 
This report has been brief.  Reporters from both the Independent and the Register-Star were at tonight's meeting tonight.   Be sure to check the Friday papers for an in depth report.
 
It is unfortunate that the Planning Board had no specialists on hand for consultation such as a landscaper and a lighting designer.  They seemed to be in over their heads by terminology.  What we had here was an attorney planning the largest development for Kinderhook to date with lay people. 
 
KNGG had pointed out to the Town Board when architecture was to be reviewed a few months back, an accredited architect should have been hired for consultation. If this mall gets built, it will have been designed by an attorney and some lay people.
 
The Planning Board will have another special workshop to accommodate Widewaters on the DFEIS on April 21st at 7:00 PM.
 
The regular planned workshop will be tonight (Thursday) evening at 7:00 PM at the Town Hall in Niverville.

 
You contribution to KNGG is tax deductible as allowed by the law.
 

APRIL 1, 2004
TO:  ALL KNGG MEMBERS
 
We need everyone reading these eNEWS Bulletins to renew their membership for 2004.
What? You forgot? We'll forgive you! But please remember to send in your renewal check today.
www.kngg.org  go to MEMBERSHIP,
click on "Contributions" for a list of suggested contribution levels.
YOU are important. KNGG needs YOU!

ZBA MET THURSDAY NIGHT APRIL 1ST
The Town ZBA met last night at the Town Hall in Niverville.  Serving on the Board were Sean Egan, Chairman, Wendy Bopp, Margaret Litteken (alternate), Jim Waterhouse, Richard Wetmore.  ZBA attorney Marc Gold was present.
 
There seemed to be some confusion because the ZBA secretary, Susan Jarnoff had been absent due to a family matter.  There were no agendas available for the public and board members received their packets that night so they had no time to study their contents before the meeting.
 
I would like to mention one letter of importance that was read into the record by chairman Sean Egan.  It was written by new KNGG member George Shear and it is basically what KNGG has been trying to make the Planning Board and the ZBA understand for the past two years. 
 
Sean Egan, Chairman
Town of Kinderhook ZBA
P O Box P - Niverville NY 12130

I am writing to express my concern for the pattern of development on the land currently zoned commercial at and near the intersection of routes 9 and 9H.

Applications for the Widewaters project, Dunkin Donuts, the possibility of  further development on the Stewart's property, and inevitable future proposals make it imperative that development here must be considered in a comprehensive
way.

The importance of careful planning in the area is certainly intensified by
the presence of the High School and student pedestrian traffic amid all this
activity.

While the impact the Widewaters development will have on the immediate
environment is under close scrutiny, wont commercial development radiating from this
intersection have the potential to transform the area into a series of
unattractive and unloved strip malls similar to those in other nearby towns?

If the much discussed roundabout will handle the existing traffic and the
traffic generated by Widewaters,
will it be capable of serving the additional
future development attracted to this area?

The issue is not commercial activity per-se, but how this commercial
development can be planned to benefit the town rather than becoming simply a
traffic-generating eyesore.


It would seem a logical step to hold off approvals in this area for the short
time required to take a comprehensive look at an area that has the prospect
of becoming either a benefit or an eyesore to the Town.

George E. Shear
 
Judging from the discussion about Dunkin Donuts we heard tonight, one would think that this letter had not been read.  Unfortunately from all that was said, it appeared to not apply to what they were discussing.
 
It was mentioned by Sean Egan that a recomendation from the Planning Board had beed recieced recomending that the two variances Dunkin Donuts has aplied for, not be granted.
Variance 1 - They want double the signage allowed by code.
Variance 2 - DD plan to put up a new building using the same footprint as the current building, although the building will be higher. They want the set  back grandfathered to the old code.
 
Tonight they presented a new application for a third variance. Dick Wetmore had questioned them several times why they were not asking for a variance for lot coverage. The New Code requires that all new development leaves 50 percent of the land as green space.  They have only about 34 percent.
 
The DD representative put the blame on the Planning Board for DD needing the lot coverage variance.  Not true.  They needed a lot coverage variance from day one.  Furthermore Pat Prenderghast, Town Engineer, at a previous PB meeting brought to their attention that the parking spaces were not large enough to comply with the code.
 
When DD remade their site plan, even less green space would be left due to the larger parking spaces. It was determined that they would need a lot coverage variance.  Whether or not they had to enlarge the parking spaces, they still needed the variance.
 
The correct format as prescribed by Town Code is for the ZBA to request a letter of recomendation from the Planning Board for the lot coverage vaiance.  If you will remember the DD public hearing was postponed from March to May because the Planning Board wasn't given 45 days notice by the ZBA for the letter of recomendation.
 
Now, ZBA attorney Marc Gold told the applicant he will see that the Planning Board will receive the ZBA letter of request TOMORROW, Friday April 2nd, and that the Planning Board will have the letter of recomendation to the ZBA in time so that all three variances can be considered at the ZBA Public Hearing in May.
 
With this in mind, the ZBA (going against the Town Code) voted to accept the application as complete for a lot coverage variance, when in fact the application is not complete until the letter of recomendation is received from the Planning Board.
 
IS SOMETHING IS ROTTEN IN NIVERVILLE?
 
The meeting adjourned at 8:25 PM.

 
  KNGG NEEDS YOUR HELP!

PLEASE WRITE.

The ZBA has "DECLARED WIDEWATERS' PUBLIC HEARING OPEN."

COMMENTS on WIDEWATERS' ROOF PITCH VARIANCE

are still being accepted.

Write NOW to Kinderhook Town ZBA, P O Box P, Niverville NY 12130

ALSO BE SURE TO COPY IN THE MEDIA:

The Chatham Courier:courier@localnet.com The Independent:letters@indenews.com

The Register-Star:editorial@registerstar.com

Widewaters wants a flat roof on their big box Hannaford building. The code says "NO." The code must be upheld. Otherwise precedence will dictate that the next developer wanting to put up "big box," flat roof structures will be allowed a variance also. Tell the ZBA this variance must be turned down to save Kinderhook's Route 9/9H Corridor from becoming an avenue of big boxes. It must be turned down to save the Town's rural traditional character.

Widewaters claims they cannot build their planned building with a traditional roof.

NOT TRUE!  KNGG has submitted drawings by architect Alvin Knoll showing the Widewaters building with a traditional roof can be built. Alvin Knoll has prooved it showing dimentions that, mathmatically, will work.  It can be done.

For details on the ZBA Hearing of November 17th - see KNGG eNEWS

More Details on Architecture - See "WIDEWATERS' SDEIS" click on "Architecture"

NOT SURE ABOUT ARCHITECTURE?

Write to the PLANNING BOARD and the PRESS about the roundabout (one half of which is now planned with 2 lanes and one half with one lane) or water pollution or school bus safety or increase in traffic or loss of local businesses or air pollution or safety on local streets or light pollution or over-scale buildings or unsafe location or pedestrian crossings or

write about anything that disturbs

 YOU

about this strip mall.

WE MUST KEEP THESE ISSUES ALIVE!


To get your LAWN SIGN, please call:
Abbey Cash 758-7588 DAILY
John Picket 758-7520 DAILY
                                         Sue Chiafullo758-2944 WEEKENDS                             

MARCH 30, 2004
TO:  ALL KNGG MEMBERS
PLANNING BOARD UPDATE
For an update of the Thursday night Planning Board Workshop review of the DFEIS (Draft Final Environmental Impact Statement) submitted by Widewaters to the Planning Board, see today's Independent page 6, "Widewaters Review 'Marathon' Lopes Along"  by Matthew Sheehey. This article does not appear on the net so be sure to pick up the paper before Friday.   
 
Not mentioned in the article is Marco Marzocchi's lack of cooperation.  He seems to forget the document he submitted to the Planning Board, when completed will become the Planning Board's document.  The PB must be content with the language and it has every right to direct him to change the language to suit their judgement.
 
Aparently Marzocchi even angered Planning Board attorney Marc Gerstman to a point where Marzocchi needed to be put in his place.  (About time.)
 
The next workshop when the Planning Board will continue editing the DFEIS will be April 7th at
7:00 PM.     
 
To see regularly scheduled meeting times of the Planning Board, ZBA and Town Board:
Go to KINDERHOOK and click on "Municipal Meeting Times."          
OTHER MEETINGS AND EVENTS - click on "Schedules"
KNGG MEETINGS - click on "Schedule"
 
JOIN THE SAFETY YES CAMPAIGN!
 
Help to usher in spring &
GET YOUR KNGG LAWN SIGN
and They're FREE!
 
To get your sign, please call:
Abbey Cash 758-7588 DAILY
John Picket 758-7520 DAILY
Sue Chiafullo758-2944 WEEKENDS

TO:  ALL KNGG MEMBERS

MARCH 23, 2004

Please accept our apologies.  No thank you letters have gone out for the past month.  We will be catching up soon.  We have not forgotten the genoesity of those of you who have contributed to make KNGG successful in its mission.  Thank you.       

No Dunkin’ Donuts on Our Main Street

The Associated Press, March 22, 2004

BRISTOL, R.I. - A citizen’s coalition is leading the charge against a New England institution: Dunkin’ Donuts.

For weeks, Linda Arruda and as many as a dozen others have been meeting to stop the donut and coffee chain from building a store in the historic district of this quaint bayside town that’s home to the nation’s longest running Fourth of July parade.

“I want to help the downtown Dunkin’ Donuts fail,” Arruda told The Providence Journal. A button reading “Do Not Donut” was pinned to her. “I will do my best to make it go out of business.”

Some are pleased that there may be an occupant at the store front at the corner of Hope and State Streets that’s been vacant for months. But the Preserve Historic Bristol, formed in January after towns people learned of the Dunkin’ Donuts plan, see it as a threat. The group wants Bristol to ban or at least restrict so-called formula businesses.

The Town Council is researching the legality of such a restriction, which, if adopted would make Bristol the first in New England to have such a law.

“Bristol could lead the way,” Town Solicitor Michael Ursillo said.

Joseph Prazeres, who owns five Dunkin’ Donuts franchises in the East Bay, plans to open the shop in May. He’ll apply for a remodeling permit this month, his attorney said.

Local shop owners complain that the new store will drive up rents. Preserve Historic Bristol collected 2,200 signatures in a petition opposing Dunkin’ Donuts, and mailed it to the company’s headquarters in Randolph, Massachusetts.

Since then the group has sought to bar any business that’s required to have a standardized method of operation, such as décor and uniforms. Nationwide, nine towns in California, Florida, New York and Washington states, have bared such businesses.

Stacy Mitchell, a researcher with the Institute for Local Self-Reliance, said losing one locally owned store can have repercussions.

“You lose the distinctive character of your town,” she said. “You lose your sense of place.”

The East Bay Chamber of Commerce said the town needs to look at both sides of the issue.                      


JOIN THE SAFETY YES CAMPAIGN!
 
GET YOUR NEW LAWN SIGNS OUT TODAY.
They're FREE!
 
To get your sign, please call:
Abbey Cash 758-7588 DAILY
John Picket 758-7520 DAILY
Sue Chiafullo758-2944 WEEKENDS
 

 The following comments on the proposed Site Plan as

presented by Marilyn Kaplan, Architect at the Widewaters' site plan hearing .

  1. Comments were limited to discussing the Landscaping, Lighting, and the Roundabout.
  2. Reminded the Planning Board that as a practicing architect, daily coordination for construction projects occurs with landscape architects and designers, and all types of engineers.

I. LandscapingWhat has been proposed by the developer is an inexpensive, minimal landscape plan. There is no beauty, no joy, and no consideration beyond spending as little funds as possible on these aspects. As a result of the developer’s direction to minimize expenditures on site amenities, the site design is "bottom line" and unacceptable.

The site plan should be rejected and the landscape designer requested to come onsite to work with the Planning Board. The landscape designer should provide the Planning Board true renderings (and not only site plan drawings which are difficult for non-construction related personnel to read) so that the Board can fully understand what is being proposed. Without such renderings, there is likely to be a large gap between what the Planning Board will expect and what infact will be provided. The screening will be unacceptable and plant materials inadequate in size and quantity.

Among the specific problems include the following:

A. The primary deciduous plantings to the south of the project are within a single, staggered row of trees spaced 15’ apart. The site / landscape plan does not provide the caliber, or size, of these trees, but does call out the caliber of others trees as 2 ˝" to 3". This size is too small, in particular when placed 15’ apart in a single row. The minimum that should be specified is a 3 ˝ "caliber, and, if the developer were truly to respond to the concerns previously raised by the Planning Board and public, 4"- 4 1/2" caliber trees would be proposed. Similarly, with respect to the screening from the north at the property line, no caliber size for the 15’ spaced trees is specified.

The size and quantity of trees is critical. Because there are such minor grade changes on the site, the plantings are the primary means to soften the impact of the large buildings and expansive parking areas, and to obscure essentially blank side and rear facades: the east –west dimension of the Hannaford building and the adjacent commercial space to the east is 400’. The plantings proposed at the site perimeter are similarly inadequate, and more trees should be planted adjacent to all five buildings to soften the overall appearance and reduce the scale of the project.

B. Despite previous requests, the proposed plan shows no plantings, street furniture such as benches, or other site amenities at the primary building facades facing the parking lots or Route 9H to break up the 400’ long façade on the main building. Since these features would represent a relatively minor cost in the context of this project, these should be provided at all building facades.

Additional problems noted with the other buildings:

  1. The proposed restaurant lacks any screened or softening with plantings. Not even the prominently placed dumpsters, which are extremely visible from the main parking lot, are screened or landscaped.
  2. The two retail stores to the north lack plantings.

C. The proposed design for the parking lot shows 6 low medians with widely spaced shrubs, no higher than 18" - 24". When cars are in the lot, these will not be visible. In both an east-west and north-south directions, the expanse of paving is greater than 300’ with no trees. The Planning Board should require that trees be planted within the median to reduce the scale of these unrelieved distances.

D. The final comment regarding the landscaping is that there is an opportunity for the Planning Board to proactively engage with the landscape architect and to set a standard of design, establish minimum size trees and shrubs, review the quantity of plantings, and to use this opportunity to enhance the buildings and parking area.

II. Lighting

The proposed site plan shows 30’ high light standards that are the height of 3-story buildings. While in most areas of the site this height is unnecessary and unacceptable in scale, it is the least expensive means for the developer to light the site. The Planning Board is requested to require a greater number of shorter fixtures, with other design options that are intended for locations where it is understood that historic character and design matters. III. Roundabout

Only few comments were provided on the roundabout. Based on experience traveling to the Kingston roundabout weekly, and extended visits in Scotland where roundabouts, in particular in rural areas, are common, comments were made regarding the high level of confusion created by such traffic patterns. The confusion is greatest when the driver is not familiar with the area, a likely scenario at this intersection since Routes 9 and 9H are heavily used by through traffic. The close proximity to the high school means that the community’s most inexperienced drivers are asked to navigate these on a daily basis.

End of Comments.


MARCH 19, 2004

TO:  ALL KNGG MEMBERS

PLANNING BOARD MET THURSDAY NIGHT 
Kinderhook Town Planning Board Meeting – March 18, 2004
Widewaters Commons Shopping Center - No Action
Stewart's for additional building to house a drive thru Trusco Bank - No action.

FORDHAM ROAD RETAIL WHOLESALE NURSERY AND LANDSCAPING
(Michael Leiser – Hall Holding Corp applicant)
Applicant's attorney presented revised site plan as per Board’s request.  Changes included details of signage, driveway dimensions, location of lighting, and temporary rest area.  A letter from an adjoining property owner was submitted.  Chair noted that this is a controversial project. 
 
A list of on site equipment showing the sizes was requested from the applicant.  This will include dump trucks, excavators, and tree spades, as noted by Chair.  The Board directed the applicant to add a level of specificity to application to include such things as curb cut on to Norris Drive, driveway width, planned placement  of utilities, and a key to distinguish old from new plantings. Health Dept. requirements have not yet been met  for water and septic.
 
A motion was passed expressing the application to be essentially complete.
A Public Hearing on this project is set for April 15, 2004, pending all the conditions requested by the Board are met. 
 
DUNKIN DONUTS
A decision was made to engage Creighton Manning as the Traffic Engineer on the DD project.
 
The Planning Board now has 30 days in which to declare itself "lead agency" for determination of the application.

Two motions were passed regarding the ZBA Opinion. One regarding signage as follows: PB advised that the requested additional signage requirement by DD was not necessary and should be declined by the ZBA since there is great visibility at the sight. This motion passed unanimously.

The PB also acted unfavorably on the lessened setback request, advising the ZBA to deny this request as well. The motion passed with one nay from Don Gaylord. The PB’s justification for this action was based mainly on safety and  traffic issues.  The abnormally large requirement of 100’ setback for restaurants in the code is based on the traffic and parking requirements inherent in these types of business. The applicant is proposing much less of a setback.  Also, as the applicant was aware, the problems existed when he submitted his application. It was noted that the property was problematic for a drive-in bank which previously occupied the plot and generated far less traffic than DD will. 
 
The applicant was told by the board that it will be required for him to submit a separate application to the ZBA for a variance on lot coverage.

TODAY'S REGISTER-STAR
 
Roundabouts safer, expert tells boards
KINDERHOOK -- Roundabouts are a popular solution to busy intersections with the state Department of Transportation because they are relatively safe, a DOT roundabout expert told a large collection of officials from the town and village of Kinderhook, Valatie and Ichabod Crane School Wednesday.
   
TODAY'S INDEPENDENT
DOT man sings roundabouts' praises
By: MATTHEW SHEEHEY 03/19/2004
NIVERVILLE-The state is on track to build 15 roundabouts a year, including one in Kinderhook.
Townspeople, however, need some convincing before they welcome one here. State Department of Transportation Engineer Howard McCulloch came to do just that Wednesday night at a joint meeting of the Town Board and Planning Board at Town Hall.

COMMENTARY:  by Allen Schaefer, President KNGG
After all the hype about roundabouts, what is not getting across here is how will the roundabout work in Kinderhook with its special needs.  The facts are simple.  The Ichabod Crane School System is only a few hundred feet from the planned site of the intersection.  How do they expect the students to cross two major highways with no traffic signals?  Route US9 is federal highway.  The feds require provisions be made to get the handicapped and the blind across their roads at intersections safely.  How, with no traffic signals?
How are the busses from the school expected to get out into moving traffic when they can't gear up fast enough to merge? 
 
The roundabout has been found to work well in rural areas with infrequent traffic.  The roundabouts that have been tested are four legged with all entrances equal distances apart.  The roundabout for Kinderhook with five legs is an experiment.  A roundabout with one leg leading to and from a major shopping center is unusual and believed to be dangerous.  The entrances of northbound US9 and NY 9H will not be equal distances from each other.  As matter of fact, they will be merging simultaneously side by side!  How can the DOT just ignore all these facts? How do we know they are being ignored?  Because they refuse to discuss them when asked.
 
When KNGG member Diane Whelton asked Howard McCulloch, supposedly the DOT's authority on roundabouts at Wednesday's meeting,  "Exactly why is a roundabout safer for the intersection of Routes 9 and 9H in Kinderhook than a signaled intersection?"  He replied, "I haven't seen the traffic signal analysis for the 9 and 9H intersection. I don't know."
 
If he doesn't know, he has no right coming to Kinderhook to tell us how wonderful the roundabout would be here when he hasn't even studied the scientific data of the intersection in question.
 
It's time to stop trying to pull the wool over the public's eyes. Tell us the truth and therefore deny Widewaters and Dunkin Donuts applications for this dangerous intersection.

 
THE FOLLOWING ARE THE COMMENTS OF KNGG BOARD MEMBER SARA RICHARDS AS READ TO THE PLANNING BOARD AT THE PUBLIC HEARING ON WIDEWATERS SITE PLAN BY HER HUSBAND ERIC.  WE HAVE COLORED HER ROUNDABOUT OBSERVATIONS IN RED FOR EASY ACCESS.

I. To borrow a phrase from another area of the law, when considering whether Site Plan Approval for a particular project is appropriate for the Town of Kinderhook, we need to consider applying almost a "time, place and manner" analysis.  The site plan proposed by WW does not meet any of these three criteria, and is the wrong type of development in the wrong place at the wrong time.

a. First, with respect to time….this project is the first major development to be proposed since the adoption of the Town's Comprehensive Plan, and is inconsistent with the Plan in many respects, which have been discussed at prior public hearings and which I will not repeat in detail here, except to say that this will truly set the tone for the future of Kinderhook.  When this Board considers whether the Site Plan is in accordance with the Town Code, please keep that in mind.

b. Also with regard to the time element-there are many of us in Kinderhook who aren't ready to be a Greenport, or an East Greenbush at this time.  Some of us never will be.   Instead of spending our time at big box stores shopping, we prefer to hike the trails across from Lindenwald, enjoy the Farmers' Markets, bicycle on back roads, and appreciate a much more tranquil lifestyle. 

c. With respect to place, this development is in the wrong place.  This intersection is the gateway to Kinderhook.  Even though the FEIS responses deny this, the Comprehensive Plan has identified it as such on page 57 and 58.  Regardless, few could reasonably dispute that it is this very intersection that welcomes residents and visitors to our Town and Villages, and whatever development-or lack thereof-at this location sends a strong message about the personality of the Town of Kinderhook.  A strip mall, whether termed "Widewaters Commons" or not, at the busiest intersection in the town, which happens to have a view of the Catskill Mountains, and near the Ichabod Crane campus, is not in keeping with the character of this community. 

d. The addition of a rotary will further degrade this gateway into the community.  Despite the fact that DOT says that it may technically be "safe," it is not in keeping with the Town of Kinderhook.  Interestingly, I noticed in the FEIS that the roundabout proposed for the 9/9H intersection is compared to a roundabout in Montpelier, Vermont.  This comparison is partly used to justify the existence and safety of a roundabout near a school.   I know exactly what roundabout they are referring to because my family lives about a mile from there on North Street.  The setting is NOTHING like the 9/9H intersection.  The roads coming into the roundabout are coming off single lane city streets where the speed limit is 20  mph.   The school is not a high school campus like Ichabod Crane, but rather, a small, old-fashioned school serving a small number of students.  The traffic is much lighter at this intersection than at the 9/9H intersection.  This is truly an "apples and oranges" comparison, and if the designers of the roundabout are planning to design it like the Montpelier roundabout, I would first encourage them to get the statistics on this roundabout, because the numbers will indicate the differences in the two locations.

e. Finally, we must discuss the manner in which this development has been proposed.  Widewaters repeatedly states that with the exception of the roof variance, the development is in compliance with the Town Code.  This may be true, but what an exhausting process to get here!!  They still could do more to make this project more attractive.  They have resisted, and make no mistake, it is because it will cost them more money to do so, not because it is impossible to do so.   A sea of pavement and signature style architecture is not in keeping with the Town Code.  Although WW says the plans for WW Commons are not "off the shelf," in reality it seems more like Burger King's old slogan "Have it your way."  You can make a few modifications here and there and add more ketchup and hold the lettuce, but when it comes down to it, its still a Burger King Burger.  The same can be said for this development-if its not "off the shelf," its pretty close.

II. This development will beget more development.  Already we've seen a new Stewarts' and a proposal for a Dunkin Donuts at this intersection.  WW says the new plaza is to fill gaps in an underserved market.  I don't feel like we are underserved.  I feel like we have the best of all worlds as it is….a beautiful rural community with easy access to larger stores 20 minutes away.  I don't feel underserved or deprived in any way.  To the contrary, I feel blessed to have such a diverse array of resources available to me.

a. Once people get used to driving to the WW Commons, other businesses will want to capitalize on the traffic and frankly, who could blame them?  I don't begrudge anyone for trying to make a dollar, but again, it has to be in the right place at the right time in the right manner, and this is not it.

b. The FEIS says that retailers typically locate in markets that are underserved and/or in markets that lack in quality or diversity of retail goods and services.  From experience, we know this is not so.  Think about it.  Target just built a new store less than a mile from Walmart in East Greenbush.  Is there really a big difference in the goods you can buy in those stores?  How about the proliferation of drug stores-CVS, Eckerd, Rite Aid, often all within a couple of blocks from each other.  They don't build because communities are underserved in their market area or because they offer something different or better.  They build because people are already coming to that area for goods and services they offer.  Business begets business, and that is exactly what will happen if this project is built.

III. Thank you for the time you, the Planning Board, have put into this project.  Municipal Boards are often under-appreciated by the community, and are not given enough credit.  I am grateful for the thoughtfulness and consideration you have shown throughout this process

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MARCH 16, 2004
TO:  ALL KNGG MEMBERS

  
DOT TRIES TO PULL WOOL OVER K'HOOK EYES AGAIN
The special meeting last night at Town Hall called by the Town Board to discuss the "Routes 9/9H Corridor" and how to solve its problems, apparently was nothing more than a up scale sales pitch for the roundabout given by the man that calls himself a "roundabout specialist," Howard McCulloch of the NY State DOT. 
 
He is such an expert that when an audience member asked, "Exactly why is a roundabout safer for the intersection of Routes 9 and 9H than a signaled intersection?"  He replied, "I haven't seen the traffic signal analysis for the 9 and 9H intersection. I don't know."
 
Now wouldn't you think that this tells our town fathers exactly who we are dealing with?  How can he expect us to accept his word without his full analysis of the situation? Are we dealing with a man trying to sell us goods who hasn't so much as determined the need because he hasn't analyzed it?
 
As quoted from the Capital District Planners Association invitation:
 
      Revolution in a "Roundabout" Sort of Way

with

Thomas Kligerman, Richard Schell & Howard McCulloch of the NY State DOT

2004 Luncheon Series Program

Thursday, March 18, 2004

Roundabout Design Staff Howard McCulloch and Richard Schell have received training in roundabout design principles and practices from national and international experts in the field. Through a combination of their professional development and actual hands-on roundabout design, Howard and Richard have the skills necessary to inform, train and assist in the design of roundabouts in any part of the U.S.

Howard McCulloch has been NYSDOT’s Roundabout Design Specialist since 1999. Since then, Howard has been involved with almost every roundabout project in New York State. His participation in these projects ranges from preliminary comments regarding a proposed roundabout site’s feasibility to final design plan development and review. Howard is responsible for roundabout overviews and roundabout design presentations throughout New York State. Howard is recognized nationally as a leader in the area of roundabout pavement marking and signing design.(?)

It appears as suspected, that McCulloch is merely a pitch man for the roundabout. The evening was similar to other roundabout presentations given by the DOT.  There were the usual video simulations that always looked down upon the roundabout and never showed it from the driver's eyes.  And the intersections were always shown nearly empty with little traffic and no distractions, unlike real life's realities at the 9/9H intersection.
 
KNGG has speculated that the DOT is trying to saddle an "experiment" on Kinderhook.  Last night McCulloch exclaimed several times, "This is not an experiment!"  But he never explained why.  McCullough kept stressing and showing roundabouts in rural areas an good examples claiming, "It's the best way to stop accidents."
 
Apropos, here is a paragreph from KNGG Board Member Sara Richards' Public Hearing speech:
 
Finally, we must discuss the manner in which this development has been proposed.  Widewaters repeatedly states that with the exception of the roof variance, the development is in compliance with the Town Code.  This may be true, but what an exhausting process to get here!!  They still could do more to make this project more attractive.  They have resisted, and make no mistake, it is because it will cost them more money to do so, not because it is impossible to do so.   A sea of pavement and signature style architecture is not in keeping with the Town Code.  Although WW says the plans for WW Commons are not "off the shelf," in reality it seems more like Burger King's old slogan "Have it your way."  You can make a few modifications here and there and add more ketchup and hold the lettuce, but when it comes down to it, its still a Burger King Burger.  The same can be said for this development-if its not "off the shelf," its pretty close.
 
What scared us most of all at this meeting was that the members of the Town Board, Doug McGivney, Francis Vecellio and Debbie Johnston were perceived as being cheerleaders throughout the evening for the DOT.

I have begun to wonder what our Town Fathers think of the testimonies given by town's people at public hearings. These people have been genuinly speaking from the heart of their warrented fears. Are the Town Fathers listening in earnest to what is being said?  If so, why invite the DOT NOW when they've been obviously absent from the beginning?  Where are their heads at and why?

It was obvious that this was another Widewaters set up.  From the near capacity crowd made up of mainly KRISHP and the presence of chief counsel for Widewaters, Marco Marzocchi it was clear.  KRISHP had advance notice to the content of this meeting and got their people out for support.  KNGG had no idea of the Town Board 's plans for the meeting except that the board had invited the Planning Board to help resolve future problems on the 9/9H corridor.

We had expected something fruitful would come from a meeting of the Town Board and the Planning Board.  We had hoped, in the least, for a 9/9H moratorium until someone with a vision can see where it should be going.  Instead we get Howard McCullogh and Marco Marzocchi.  And it's not even April first!


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 STEWART'S TO HOST NEW TRUSCO BANK 

The new Stewart's at Rt. 9/9H was on the Planning Board Workshop agenda.  They plan to put up an additional building to house a drive thru Trusco Bank. HELLO!  Isn't this just what is needed, another drive thru at this intersection???  Moratorium  IS ANYBODY LISTENING?

Below is a summary by Diana Shear from that meeting:

Stewart’s Shops- modification of approved site plan to construct 44x42 rental building. New TrustCo building.  Applicant seeks approval of new Bank facility including two lane drive-in banking and a branch office. Board previously approved a slightly larger rental building with two units.

The requirements for the new building would include a 16 square foot sign, 38 parking spaces, signage to properly direct traffic, both on pavement and signs. The Board requested the Bank’s number of users, and if the Drive-Up window meets the code. Also concerns about traffic generated by this facility were raised.


MARCH 13, 2004

TO:  ALL KNGG MEMBERS
BELATED THANKS
Please accept our belated thanks for those who worked on the organizing of the Public Hearing for KNGG.  THANK YOU Muriel Gibbons, Dick Morrill, John Picket and Diane Whelton.  You helped make the Widewaters site plan hearing the success for KNGG.
 
AT THE PLANNING BOARD WORKSHOP THURSDAY NIGHT
Please remember that the "Workshop" is not an official meeting where official business can take place.  It's a forum where the Planning Board discusses how to best complete what is before them.
 
Widewaters was not on the agenda. The Planning Board spoke about some issues not resolved in the site plan and/or in the (D)FEIS:
1.   How does the roundabout fit into the Route US9/NY 9H corridor?
2.   How does the it fit in with what is in the comprehensive plan?
 
DUNKIN' DONUTS ON AGENDA
Dunkin' Donuts has submitted an EIS form and will have a full EAF review.  The Planning Board must now declare themselves the lead agency.  DD to amend the EIS form to include the enlarged parking area.
 
It was suggested, once more, that the Town should hire a professional traffic engineer to check DD's traffic study and numbers.  Don Gaylord is insisting on a professional traffic engineer to produce an analysis of DD traffic study and of the queue. He wants a new traffic report inclusive of Widewaters.  Don also noted that the DD site plan check list was incomplete.
 
Planning Board Chairman Ed Simonsen discussed the cancellation of the Dunkin' Donuts ZBA hearing:
1.  Their application for a hearing was not complete.
2.  The Planning Board was not notified of the need by the ZBA for a recommendation from the PB. 3.  The Planning Board has 45 days from day of receipt to complete the referral.  The first date possible for a hearing at the ZBA was May 6th.  It has been set for May 6th.
 
The variances requested are for double the signage allowed by code and set back from the road requirements.
 
One member explained how Dunkin' Donuts had no justification for larger and additional signage.  It was also said that they had no justification to be allowed the set back they want. It was also discussed how the applicant knew in advance that the plot was too small for what the want to do.
 
DD was told that they have an option on lot coverage and set back.  They could reduce the amount of floor space in their public area and take away 4 parking spaces.  This could give them the numbers they need to get approval.  It is not known if DD would agree to this.  It looks like the Planning Board may give the DD referral a negative response to the ZBA.  A vote as to whether to send the ZBA a negative or positive refferal will most likely be taken at the Planning Board meeting on March 18th.
 
The ZBA does not have agree with the negative referral, although it would come with reasons why the ZBA should turn this project down.  It's the wrong place.
 
FORDHAM ROAD NURSERY
There is a 10 acre plot of land at 156 Fordham Road which is zoned A/R (agricultural/residential).
The applicant, Hall Holding Corp., is asking to put a commercial wholesale and retail nursery business on this plot.  Under some circumstances, a farmer is entitled to have a stand to sell the plants, vegetables, etc. that he grows on the premises.
 
The mechanics are unclear but it is thought that the applicant could plant and grow trees and other plants to sell on the premises and to have related stock shipped in for sale to the public. In order to do this, he would need a special use permit which could be restricted as to how much off site goods he import.
 
The site plan had already been discussed and presented to the board.  But Thursday night the developer's attorney showed up with a completely new site plan.  The difference is that the applicant now wants to turn the plot into a 2 lot subdivision of 5 acres each.  5 on the road side and 5 in the rear.  It is planned to sell the back lot for residential use which has access via a cul-de-sac on the adjacent subdivision.
 
In addition the applicant wants to remove one of two rows of pine trees along Fordham Road currently being used as screening and use them for screening of the nursery from the new subdivision.  We do not recommend this because several of these pine trees have thinned out and some are dieing.  The screening as is along the road needs reinforcement, not deletion of half of it.
 
One begins to wonder just how much growing could be done on 5 acres.  Trees take up much more space than tomatoes. Would someone establishing a true nursery take only 5 acres when 10 are available for possible future expansion.  With the two good sized barns already there plus 2 green houses and a parking area, how much land could be left for planting?  The applicant has advised the Planning Board that he does not plan to sell primarily to the public but to landscapers. 
 
If that's the case, why go for a variance on the size of the signage?  Why does he need a sign larger than allowed by code?   How much of the product being sold will be grown on site and how much will be shipped in?  Could the ultimate goal be to turn this plot into primarily commercial space to sell to the public, sort of another Calenders? 
 
This is not the ordinary farm.  The nursery will have trucks going in and out with deliveries and pickups from April through November, not to mention the back hoes digging up trees and loading them on to trucks.
 
Fordham Road is a quiet country lane with a few gracious old farm houses and several newer homes on 5 acre plots. Near by is the intersection of  Bishop Nelson Road with similar buildings. The only farmland left on Fordham Road is a cornfield at the corner of Maple Lane South.  The land at 156 is surrounded on 3 sides by one family homes.
 
It is not understood why anyone would want to put this enterprise on a small (5 acre plot) in the Fordham Road neighborhood.  This type of business would be more suitable in unused land along US9 or NY 9H where there is a much higher visibility and commercial restrictions are not the problem. 
 
If this is allowed to go in, it will set a precedent.  Before you know it someone would want to put a convenience store in the cornfield at the corner of Maple Lane South and Fordham Road to sell plants and cite the nursery as being allowed to sell to the public and import items to sell.
 
A commercial nursery on this plot in the midst of this primarily residential area will raise havoc with the home owners who have moved to the area for the peace and quiet of country space.  The traffic on weekends will become intolerable for this country lane and those adjacent like Maple Lane South, Bishop Nelson Road and County Route 21 which at Old Post Road becomes Albany Avenue in the Village of Kinderhook.  This is not a good blend.  It must be closely watched.
 
In the end the applicant was told their application lacks specificity and requested the applicant to review the site plan and the board's check list and to detail what the exact business is.  The code outlines the requirements.